to move to NYC?

[geraniem]

We have been offered a move to NYC from london with DH job. he works in tech in a fairly niche/desirable skillset and the rest of his team are based there, so it hasn't come as a surprise, but they are pretty keen for us to go over, and we have been given an "emergency" appt to get visas sorted out. on paper it looks great, we have scrutinised the health insurance which looks excellent (biggest thing for me!), there's a decent relocation grant, first couple months accommodation paid, and DH would have a small salary increase which i suspect is to reflect the cost of living in NYC. also, according to the relocation package i would have a visa enabling me to work over there - i work in corporate admin and have some decent transferable skills. we've both been in london since before we met and we feel we have "done" it, we'd be otherwise looking to move out of our area if not out of london completely. also, people keep telling us how lucky we are and how amazing NYC is!

however. covid is worsening over there, and a lot of things about the US bother me (politics, healthcare, racism, gun laws etc). NYC looks mega expensive even compared to london prices, particularly rent. also -- we finally have a decent house deposit saved to buy our first home, a lot of family live within 2 hours drive/train of us, and dd is happy at school with friends she's known since babyhood. i've been at my company for a few years and am comfortable with the work and pay plus i can now work from home as much as i want, and i'm also just slightly anxious about starting over in a new country as an adult. i studied in the US for a couple of months when i was younger and we have some friends and family in different places over there, but otherwise our only experience is holidays, and it just feels huge and daunting. DH is super excited but i'm the pragmatic one. also, i lived abroad on another continent as a kid and look back on it with fond memories, though we returned to the uk permanently when i was about 9 and i do remember it feeling a bit strange not knowing all the cultural references etc (this was pre netflix/internet!). i settled in, but i never really felt like i "fit in" until probably university, though that could have been entirely my fault!

would you do it? we would be looking at early spring next year, so not during the tough (covid) winter.

any thoughts from anyone who has lived in NYC/the US, any americans, british expats, anyone really!? i don't want to rain on DH parade at all but its getting "real" now and i honestly dont want to be over influenced by people i know, who just love NYC from having had a great holiday there!

I'm a migrant (sorry, I hate ex-pat as a term!) Mostly due to DH's job. My biggest problems have been transferring work experience and qualifications and having to do everything in another language. Sounds like you've got those areas covered.

I've always refused to go and live in America because the places offered were a bit out of the way, Illinois was one example - didn't think I'd like living in a big suburb outside Chicago. Apparently you have to drive everywhere, they dont really have footpaths, public transport is poor and its quite dull but still plenty of crime (according to previous residents). I'd have said yes to NYC though.

Hey,

I would absolutely go, it's such an opportunity- but expect to be worse off as COL is just hugely different. Will you be coming back in a few years?

Are you looking to live in the burbs? Or city centre?

I struggled to accept the prices of a weekly shop - it is so much cheaper to eat takeaway which is not ideal.

I didn't like not having a car, always hiring cars at the weekend.

I would personally look to live in the neighbourhoods across the Hudson (NJ)
Newport/ Hoboken/ Weehawken etc or in Brooklyn. NJ is commutable (river taxi) and hugely less expensive. Has all the views and much less of the "scaries" it always feels safe there- it that makes sense. Lots of young families and plenty of brits/Aussies living there. Plus less tourists!

Good luck!

Also, you said you think you have a good deal on health insurance - seriously push your luck and ask for more. So many people to think they have a good deal, read the fine print and check it three/four times. Ensure deductibles are paid for! That's a must as the excess is scary.

Ooh---do not rent anything bigger than what you really actually need. I know it's tempting but A spacious 1bed apartment if the living space is large enough would be fine- the jump in price from 1-2 with a view is large.

Can you ask for more accommodation support - ask for 6 months and maybe they will offer 5?

Will they pay for some return flights each year?

thanks -- that's helpful. i had the impression that living in NJ and working in NY (as DH would be at least) creates tax implications? i don't really know NJ at all. having lived quite centrally in london for a few years i both like the advantages of it (walking/public transport everywhere, lots to do for dc) but equally more space and quiet would be good. we havent been able to go over there obviously due to covid, and my last time in NY was in 2018 and we just spent time in manhattan and brooklyn (which are crazy expensive).
i think we would be planning to come back before dc is in secondary school, so only a few years probably. do you think COL is high then in every respect- food, petrol, things to do, clothing etc? i know there's sales tax added on to everything, tipping is huge and stuff and i've seen that renting is very expensive but don't know about much else. i also dont know how much i would stand to earn over there, here at the role i've been in for a few years i have a decent wage but thats partly due to longevity.

I lived and worked in NYC for years.Loved it . The East Coast politically is much more liberal leaning than say , the Midwest. It is very family and child friendly too. Don't know how you could find it more expensive than London or even Dublin rent wise. If your DH is getting a pay rise , relocation fees and accomadation package, it sounds ideal.Millions of people live in NY , all from different income levels , quite happily. Go , embrace and enjoy !

i dont think we could manage a 1 bed as we have dd.
i think you have a good point about negotiating the package, hadnt thought of that, is that normal? they dont pay for yearly return flights but theyll pay for a trip out there (covid permitting) before the move to scout, and obviously for our flights there. we went through the health insurance w/ my american SIL to understand it all and she thought it sounded good with deductible covered, though i will definitely be going back to look at it again!

I would absolutely do it, what a fantastic experience for you all.

Dont go to NJ. That is like going to live in London but ending up in Nothampton.! There is lower sales tax in NJ , so it is OK for a shopping trip. If you live near his work or in the city , dont even bother with a car .If you want one, hire it.

There are also lots of free stuff to do in NYC .

YANBU.

If it is a tech company, they may even have a realtor connected for HR purposes .

The "small" salary increase worries me, I have to say - the cost of living in NYC is, as you say, greater even than London. What you don't want to have to do is dip into your savings for a deposit and you need to be able to keep saving for when you return, as it's unlikely the cost of a house will have dropped while you're away.

Reading about how flexible your current job is for you, remember that conditions of service in American firms are significantly worse than they are here - holiday entitlement, for example, is very poor.

I would go in a heartbeat. I love New York with every fibre of my being and if someone gave me a decent package to live and work over there, I'd bite their hand off!

I know someone who lives in Weehawken, NJ and commutes but I don't know anything about the tax implication you mention above. As others have said, the rent is extortionate in Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn but the subway links are great so it would be easy to commute if you lived further out.

I hope it works out for you, I'm seething with jealousy in here a cold, grey Glasgow

Oh, I also recently saw someone recommend looking at Long Island City for cheaper rent with easy access to NYC. I visited LIC for a specific restaurant during my last trip and it was easy peasy to get there and back.

I think you need to consider how the move would work for you, not just for DH. Can you find a job which is equivalent in terms of money and working hours to your existing job? What if you get out there and are not happy, but DH isn't prepared to move back to UK? You might be stranded out there anyway if he won't agree to you returning here with DD.. lots of different angles to consider!

Does the package include school fees?

@Stillfunny

Dont go to NJ. That is like going to live in London but ending up in Nothampton.! There is lower sales tax in NJ , so it is OK for a shopping trip. If you live near his work or in the city , dont even bother with a car .If you want one, hire it. There are also lots of free stuff to do in NYC .

Completely disagree. Google maps Weehawken, Hoboken, etc. It's literally on the banks of the Hudson, NYC views and Statue of Liberty (if you're high enough) and it's minutes on the water bus.

no, the package doesn't include school fees.

Long Island City is quite up and coming now. Also Jersey City is cheap to live. But if you want to take advantage of living in NYC , factor in time and travel costs. No point in living in a nice house in the burbs if you are bored shitless ! Can you tell that I am really pushing you to live in the city or nearby ? Can your DH reach out to his work colleagues for info too ? Most Americans are very obliging like this.

We were offered the same opportunity. I did lots of research and we turned it down.
We did a trial 5 weeks one summer and I hated it. I was so unhappy (previously loved NY).
I found our apartment claustrophobic and dark (was still an expensive apartment in a nice area). I missed the countryside and space we have here. I found it so expensive and the people unfriendly and rude. We were right in Manhattan though so maybe it would be different if you were further out.

I will say DH loved it and so did the kids. But of course he loved walking to his air con Soho office instead of commuting hours to Slough! Just make sure the move is right for you and not just DH.

i had the impression that living in NJ and working in NY (as DH would be at least) creates tax implications?

It does. You get double taxed and then wind up claiming a portion of it back. There is also a city tax for NYC.

do you think COL is high then in every respect- food, petrol, things to do, clothing etc?

COL is far, far higher than London. Food is the real sticker-shock item. Petrol is cheaper, clothing more or less the same.

I'm a dual national so prior to covid we went back and forth, depending on where the jobs were, fairly frequently. The salaries in the US were higher for the most part; once you get above a certain level in management or to executive level they even out.

If you do it push for a very decent package with return flights.

Sorry MrsSmith2020. Just cant help myself !

@geraniem

no, the package doesn't include school fees.

That would be a deal breaker for me. US schooling is not equivalent at any point (it starts at a later age so there's a year or two difference), and the older the DC get the more obvious this becomes.

Op I'd go but if dh suddenly had this offer I'm not sure what I'd do as I love my job and dd is in a great secondary.

If your dd is so young still... It's probably your last opportunity to move without massively changing her life.. (and move back)

thats interesting delatron-- we already live in a fairly small, definitely overpriced apartment in london so we wouldn't be downsizing really or missing out on countryside. i guess thats one of the things in NY's favour, we havent put down "roots" anywhere nice in the UK yet, and if anything quality of life will be about the same. though i did have a hunch that NY is more expensive to live.

thanks so much to everyone for all the info so far, it's definitely reminded me to push for what i want/need!