to move to NYC?

[geraniem]

We have been offered a move to NYC from london with DH job. he works in tech in a fairly niche/desirable skillset and the rest of his team are based there, so it hasn't come as a surprise, but they are pretty keen for us to go over, and we have been given an "emergency" appt to get visas sorted out. on paper it looks great, we have scrutinised the health insurance which looks excellent (biggest thing for me!), there's a decent relocation grant, first couple months accommodation paid, and DH would have a small salary increase which i suspect is to reflect the cost of living in NYC. also, according to the relocation package i would have a visa enabling me to work over there - i work in corporate admin and have some decent transferable skills. we've both been in london since before we met and we feel we have "done" it, we'd be otherwise looking to move out of our area if not out of london completely. also, people keep telling us how lucky we are and how amazing NYC is!

however. covid is worsening over there, and a lot of things about the US bother me (politics, healthcare, racism, gun laws etc). NYC looks mega expensive even compared to london prices, particularly rent. also -- we finally have a decent house deposit saved to buy our first home, a lot of family live within 2 hours drive/train of us, and dd is happy at school with friends she's known since babyhood. i've been at my company for a few years and am comfortable with the work and pay plus i can now work from home as much as i want, and i'm also just slightly anxious about starting over in a new country as an adult. i studied in the US for a couple of months when i was younger and we have some friends and family in different places over there, but otherwise our only experience is holidays, and it just feels huge and daunting. DH is super excited but i'm the pragmatic one. also, i lived abroad on another continent as a kid and look back on it with fond memories, though we returned to the uk permanently when i was about 9 and i do remember it feeling a bit strange not knowing all the cultural references etc (this was pre netflix/internet!). i settled in, but i never really felt like i "fit in" until probably university, though that could have been entirely my fault!

would you do it? we would be looking at early spring next year, so not during the tough (covid) winter.

any thoughts from anyone who has lived in NYC/the US, any americans, british expats, anyone really!? i don't want to rain on DH parade at all but its getting "real" now and i honestly dont want to be over influenced by people i know, who just love NYC from having had a great holiday there!

I lived in New York for two years and oh my god I would do this in a HEARTBEAT. Such an amazing opportunity! Definitely don't live in Mamhattan or New Jersey though. Lots of areas in Brooklyn are beautiful and extremely family friendly with lots of green space. The family life on offer in New York is incredible and doesn't have to be pricey. All the things you have described in England will still be waiting for you in a few years! Whereas most people will never get this chance to live in different country having new experiences. There is so much amazing culture and food from all over the world, museums, arts and nature in New York and surrounding areas. And don't forget the beaches! I went to beautiful Brooklyn beaches regularly in the summer. If you have any questions please PM me. Grab this chance by the horns!

I’d move in a heartbeat. Let’s swap husbands 🤣😱

I’ve lived in the states but not NY.
I couldn’t live there, it is insanely expensive, I’d really do a breakdown of costs and see what your standard of living would be like.
Check when the healthcare kicks in, a lot waits 90 days from the start of employment.
Also check if you could get things like mobile phone contracts, U.K. credit ratings are rarely taken into account and can make that sort of thing a real headache.

"Dont go to NJ. That is like going to live in London but ending up in Nothampton.!"

Take it you've never been @Stillfunny since Northampton is the best part of a 2 hour drive from London and this photo was taken in NJ. Less than 10 minutes on the ferry from Manhattan

OP - go for it!

Whoever said New Jersey would be a bad choice is talking nonsense. I have family in Leonia and one of them Manhattan by bus to Port Authority every day. Doesn't take long. Hoboken is also an amazing NJ spot although expensive too!

I’d go for it, I lived in Brooklyn for almost 1 years and loved it. Lots of Brits around too. With 1 younger kid it is a great lifestyle, local public schools can be greet, all your kid’s friends and activities are within a few blocks, it’s busy but not too overwhelming like parts of Manhattan can be. We moved to CA a couple of years ago because the school situation gets harder once your kids hit middle school (secondary age in the UK) and we couldn’t afford the $100k a year to educate our kids!

I am American and if I wasn't encumbered by a child, I'd live in NYC in a heartbeat.

All my friends who started careers in Manhattan soon left the city for NJ suburbs or Long Island and Westchester, or even further afield to cheaper metros all together, once children came into the picture. NYC area public schools aren't great, and private schools are upwards of $40-50k a year in fees.

If you do take the opportunity, make sure you negotiate for better a holiday allowance than most America jobs offer.

I moved to NYC from London 10 years ago. There’s a lot of exaggeration on this thread, I think.

If you’re ready to leave central London and move to the country, closer to family, a smaller community, more time at home etc, this move is not for you.

To make NYC work, you have to want it to work. Otherwise you will find fault with everything because there is a lot to fault. If you do want it to work, it will be no more expensive than London (for overall cost of life as a family), perhaps even cheaper, and could be a truly life-enhancing experience.

If you’re middling about it, at least come with an open mind.

OP I am deeply jealous, it is such a fantastic city, what an opportunity.
(New York and London are my favourite cities
Just go with your heart, you will only regret opportunities missed.

I live in the US and would never live there.

For an NYC tech salary, I would expect it to be at least 40-60% more than a London salary to achieve a similar standard of living. As others have said the cost of living is higher- particularly to eat like you likely do in the UK, I always found fresh food less accessible/more expensive than here. Also I know from my colleagues’ experience that childcare is more expensive in comparison to the UK.

No I wouldn't. I visited and it is very noisy all the time. My best friend lives there and loves it but I couldn't.

Not read all the posts but you mention your DH getting a small salary increase... unless he's on mega bucks now you really need to push for more. Living expenses in much of the US can be very high, much more than London. Quality of schooling can vary widely and you need to research best school districts and then find somewhere to live in that area. Depending on age of your DD, you also need to think about transition. Once they finish elementary school at 11, they go on to middle school which is a much more generalised education than in the UK. So not much cross over.

Having said all that, it could be an amazing experience and NYC is an exciting place to be. But obviously Covid is still a problem in much of the US though most people are living relatively normal lives with only a few restrictions like mask wearing.

As I mentioned previously, we moved to upstate NY in April. Obviously, our experience is very different to what yours would be in NYC, but there are some similar elements.
As mentioned, the cost of living is high. Food is expensive, and property taxes in NY are high and make a big difference to your overall housing costs. There are also little things you might not initially consider. The climate is much more extreme, so we’re having to shell out more for proper winter gear for us all, which isn’t cheap! You also need to provide all school supplies.
Childcare is very expensive and, particularly at the moment, hard to come by. If you do decide to go and you require childcare, I would get registered as soon as possible.
We have two 5yos and a 2.5yo and the move has definitely been harder on the twins than I expected. Particularly with covid, it has been difficult to establish the same sort of community we had in England. I’m hoping that the return to school will help them to feel more settled as they get to know more people, but you shouldn’t underestimate the enormity of such a move.

I can't give a detailed answer as my experience is some years ago but we had the opportunity to do this when kids were younger. I didn't want to go even though I knew it was a great opportunity etc etc BUT we did go and it was 100% amazing and none of us will ever forget it. I say find a way to make it work!

@pleasekeeptotheright . Yes , I have been .To both .Moved from NYC to UK . Told Northampton was 1 hour by train to London. No idea of the outrageous train service prices in UK until then.
I have lived in Manhattan and Brooklyn for years. Like London , different neighbourhoods have different vibes. And prices.
I thought OP DD was a preschooler ? And it was a contract move rather than long term plan.

If the DH has a niche tech skill , if the company want him enough , he should try to negotiate a package to cover all the extra costs involved .
Like everything else , there are always reasons for doing or not doing something. All these different opinions makes one realise how individual everyone's expectations and comfort zones are.
Personally , I felt this negatively about London. I found it so expensive and no value for that money. The service industry , pricing in restaurants , cost of rentals , transport just didn't deliver for me .

Hope all these different opinions haven't made it even more conflicting for you OP .

We’ve done a stint in the US with DH’s job. I also think the package doesn’t sound great. Sounds like he’s getting a U.K. level salary still but none of the “expat” perks (free housing, free schooling, flights home etc).

Also, if you are on a L2 visa, whilst you are technically allowed to work there are a lot of hoops to jump through.

I’m an American, and I’ve lived in both NYC and London. If I were you, I wouldn’t do it, unless the salary is frankly double. NYC is so much more expensive, and living in NJ or CT, would mean double taxes. There is a lot to love about New York—but it’s difficult to do with children. Private schools are breathtakingly expensive, and the public school system is difficult to navigate and involves living in the “right” place. Some of the suburbs other posters have suggested are great for young professionals—not for families with children in school. If you do want to have another child...I have what is considered to be amazing insurance in the US...I had a baby a few months ago. It’s cost me about $4,000 so far, and I am still getting bills.

If you’re getting paid enough, it could be worth the experience. But don’t underestimate how much money you need to live there.

Sounds like a fab opportunity and I'd say go but I'd also push for a greater salary increase.
In my experience there are lots of extra costs living in the us. My impression is that friends of mine with a comparable lifestyle in USA earn much more than I do in the uk.
As pp said you MUST check insurance fine print on things like deductibles. Cost of prescriptions etc. these things can be very hella expensive.

I lived and worked there for a couple of years in midtown Manhattan before I had kids. It was a great experience but I was pleased to come home again. I had thought that my UK law firm were slave drivers but the NYC office was another level. I found it difficult surviving on so little annual leave too. I'm glad I did it but wouldn't rush to return.

It isn't double taxes. You file in NYS, and they take your state taxes out at source. You will not pay city income tax.

Then you file in NJ, and New Jersey credits your NYS tax paid. The wrinkle is that it isn't a perfect dollar for dollar credit so you might still owe New Jersey, but it will not be anywhere near double. If it were double there wouldn't be nearly so many people commuting from NJ to NY.

It is worth mentioning that NYC work culture is particularly driven, especially if your DH is at all connected to the finance industry. (Lawyers also. Everything is about billable hours, but this is true everywhere in big US law firms.) Not everywhere in the US is that bad, but many jobs in NYC are definitely into long hours culture, so I would try to find out more about the job, as well as the salary.

I think NYC is a great experience but it is simply setting yourself up for misery to go there from abroad on a poor package. Quite aside from it being an expensive city, when you're an expat you need that money to smooth things out.

Do it!! I moved to NYC from New Zealand and love it. Manhattan is the most partisan county in the US (91% for Biden). Living here is much better than visiting. Take advantage of the H4 or whatever spousal visa offer! Working visas are so hard to get and yours won't tie you to an employer. Exciting!

@Stillfunny all of that is irrelevant to the OP though isn't it? Advising her that NJ is the equivalent of Northampton is one of the most inaccurate and misleading comments on this whole thread. That might make it somewhat tricky for her.

Everyone agrees that he should be pushing for a better package. Nobody said otherwise.

I would be off like a shot - it's a wonderful opportunity.

I honestly can't see what you would gain from such a massive upheaval.

Had DH not received this offer, would there ever have been a time when you'd be wistfully wishing you could love in NYC?

It's a great place for a holiday, sure, but that's competely different from the day to day atmosphere once the initial excitement and 'glamour' has worn off.

I absolutely would not do it, ESPECIALLY as you have a DD. And especially as she has far more to lose than she would gain being there during her late-primary years.

If it was for 3 to 6 months I would say grab it with both hands. But not 5 years.

I can see that it's tempting, but please, don't do it. Because you'll hate it.