to move to NYC?

[geraniem]

We have been offered a move to NYC from london with DH job. he works in tech in a fairly niche/desirable skillset and the rest of his team are based there, so it hasn't come as a surprise, but they are pretty keen for us to go over, and we have been given an "emergency" appt to get visas sorted out. on paper it looks great, we have scrutinised the health insurance which looks excellent (biggest thing for me!), there's a decent relocation grant, first couple months accommodation paid, and DH would have a small salary increase which i suspect is to reflect the cost of living in NYC. also, according to the relocation package i would have a visa enabling me to work over there - i work in corporate admin and have some decent transferable skills. we've both been in london since before we met and we feel we have "done" it, we'd be otherwise looking to move out of our area if not out of london completely. also, people keep telling us how lucky we are and how amazing NYC is!

however. covid is worsening over there, and a lot of things about the US bother me (politics, healthcare, racism, gun laws etc). NYC looks mega expensive even compared to london prices, particularly rent. also -- we finally have a decent house deposit saved to buy our first home, a lot of family live within 2 hours drive/train of us, and dd is happy at school with friends she's known since babyhood. i've been at my company for a few years and am comfortable with the work and pay plus i can now work from home as much as i want, and i'm also just slightly anxious about starting over in a new country as an adult. i studied in the US for a couple of months when i was younger and we have some friends and family in different places over there, but otherwise our only experience is holidays, and it just feels huge and daunting. DH is super excited but i'm the pragmatic one. also, i lived abroad on another continent as a kid and look back on it with fond memories, though we returned to the uk permanently when i was about 9 and i do remember it feeling a bit strange not knowing all the cultural references etc (this was pre netflix/internet!). i settled in, but i never really felt like i "fit in" until probably university, though that could have been entirely my fault!

would you do it? we would be looking at early spring next year, so not during the tough (covid) winter.

any thoughts from anyone who has lived in NYC/the US, any americans, british expats, anyone really!? i don't want to rain on DH parade at all but its getting "real" now and i honestly dont want to be over influenced by people i know, who just love NYC from having had a great holiday there!

sorry I meant "could live in NYC?"
"

I've emigrated twice in my life.

I'd go. You can always come back.

If you don't go, you'll always wonder and maybe even regret. Plus, your DH would regret it too.

I'd do it! I'm an expat and I love this life as home will always be there, but you won't always have amazing opportunities! When you're an expat, everything feels like an experience - even a shitty day is an interesting experience, a funny story, etc. I plan on living in as many places as possible and NYC would DEFINITELY be on my list! What an exciting opportunity!

You'll get used to pieces. I'll never forget my shock at $19.50 John Frieda blonde shampoo - I paid £3.5 in England.

$20 for a kilo of parsnips 😳
But of course I got used to it and don't bat an eyelid now. So don't compare prices (only if it's to make sure you've enough to live comfortably)

Just to add, it will delay your getting your own house by however many years you are out there.

When you come back you will be in exactly the position you are in now. Just 5 years older.

The reason the company is making the package attractive is because they know they have to entice people to go and that it will take more than just a job offer.

The crime rates are so high there you could never let DD out of your sight. Her freedom would have to be much more restricted than living here.

Just my 2p,

@@pleasekeeptotheright. We shall have to agree to disagree . Still think to go to NY and live in NJ suburbs would be a shame. But then I ❤ NY.

I would go for it , I would buy a property in the uk and rent it out . Gives you options and pays your mortgage .

I had a very similar situation to you and moved to NYC for 3 years and loved it.

But we didn’t have any kids.

I’ve been back a few times with my daughter since and thought how different (and harder) it seemed to live there with a child. But it might be ok for you.

One thing to make sure you have in the package is the finder’s fee for the flat. Over there (in Manhattan) you have to pay the estate agent a commission.

After one year I moved and found a building that rented directly to tenants, but that was once I had acquired knowledge of the city and was happy to look on my own.

As you arrive, you’ll want things as easy as possible and I think you should ask for that un the package.

I don’t know what your husband’s salary is, but this was 10 years ago and we paid $3000/month for a 1 bedroom in a doorman building very near Central Park.

Oh, and we rented out our property in London while we there away, didn’t want to have to start out again when we returned.

We turned down the opportunity a couple of years ago, but it wasn’t quite the same, was a career pivot for DH, and was working in Manhattan but in NJ.

The big reason for us was salary, it was a large increase but the expense of America means it’s not as much as you think. I also wouldn’t have been able to work initially, so there’s that.

I was really up for the idea but we just couldn’t make the numbers work.

You’ll need more than a “small salary increase” to compensate for the cost of living.

Be careful on the healthcare issues. I hear a lot of Woolf-be ex-pats who have been offered jobs here who hear “health insurance covered by the company” anf think that means every penny is covered. Many companies cover the full premium (mine does) buy you still have co-pays and MOOPs to cover. I’ve yet to find an employer that would cover that.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live on the east coast but if it’s your thing, go for it.

I would at least seriously consider it. We did a US posting when the DC were tiny and it was a grand family adventure. The difference was that the company was Uk based so we had a route back so to speak. But honestly they were the happiest times.
The company gave us help with a realtor so hoise hunting was easy. It's said that the first 6 weeks of a posting or relocation are crucial - make or break. So companies like to make it work. I had a major meltdown about 2 weeks in - lonely, no work etc. But things rapidly went uphill again once we had permanent accommodation sorted. Plus we made loads of money renting our London home while the company essentially paid for US accommodation. I know your sea is different but for us it was kind of life changing.
And the adventures! Travel from a different base, getting ti know the country really well - fantastic!

Would your husband remain employed by the British entity of his employer? Or a US one? Either way they need to handle all tax affairs including retaining an accountant as it gets messy for the years where you were tax resident in uk for a period and in US for a period. Also negotiate that he maintains all other Ts and Cs as per his UK contract, so holidays etc inc equivalent number of bank holidays. And do the maths and make sure the salary increase would cover the difference and your standard of living would be same if not better. If they really want him they will agree to all this.
as for you, yes you'd have to wait for an EAD but, there's a huge shortage in employable people in this country right now so I imagine you'd have zero problems finding a job.
Only go for it if you're sure and you both agree on an exit plan if it doesn't work out.
I've never looked back since moving (not to NY) but my circs at the time were different - sounds like you have a nice setup back home as things are so really really think twice about that - is him going alone for a year an option? Does him going or not going impact his career prospects?

I would say no at the moment and say you need covid etc to calm down so you can travel and see it and do a trial cpuple of months.

Personally it would be a no because travel and loss of family time (grandparents). Travel at the moment means ot cpuld be years until regular visiting is possible. Doesn't seem worth it for a small salaray increase which will be eaten up by bills.

The employer gets far more out of it than your family and a sense of adventure only lasts so long

I grew up in NJ. Near to the train line into NYC. My dad worked in NYC. The trains are very easy and not nearly as expensive as where I live in Surrey (near Esher) to London. We used to go into NYC regularly for theatre, shopping, eating out etc plus loads of activities within our suburb. Very child friendly. Some very beautiful areas to live and to enjoy visiting. Choosing a good place to live with good school system is important and this information is easy to find. Met my British husband when he worked in NYC and lived in Hoboken.

Health insurance is very important so do check that out.

Given that they’re paying to do a visa to enable you to work is also a big positive.

If you’re unsure but want to give it a go, ensure they have relocation costs back to UK in the contract.

Try & get on the property ladder here before you go & then rent it out so you’ve got a foothold here as prices will continue to rise.

Can I jump on this thread and ask a question please?

In a similar boat - no kids, although would like to soon.

Could anyone say if a salary of $215k would be ok for two people living in Manhattan? Plus housing allowance and healthcare paid for by the company. The other half of the couple would also be on visa that would allow them to look for work. Renting in Manhattan and would let out our house in the UK while we are there (2-3 years).

I had thought it was a good enough deal but after reading here I'm not so sure!

To live IN Manhattan? Yes, but only if housing is paid.

It translates to about $155k after taxes. If you're not running a car and not paying for housing then that's more than enough.

You'll still have healthcare expenses because "paid by the company" refers to the premium, not the costs you pay at the GP or your deductible, though. So just be aware.

And if you plan on having children while in the US, it will still cost you a few thousand after insurance -- previous posters mentioned this and of course I have my own experience of it as well, it's been about $5k with excellent insurance. My deductible is low, but deductibles reset in the calendar year so you can be hit twice.

Also take into account the absolutely eye-watering cost of childcare if you're both working. We paid $24k per year for an average day care -- private school was cheaper when the DC started!

Don’t forget about relocation costs for eventually coming back. Can be $$$. Cost of living is very high. Things like takeaways and a weekly cleaner that are achievable to you in U.K. may become luxuries. But what an adventure!

@gwenneh thank you! Good info on healthcare / babies! We'd likely be back in the UK before they reach school age so I'd perhaps be a SAHM while we are there. But I'm not even pregnant yet so that's jumping ahead.

Yes, housing covered otherwise we'd be a lot worse off financially going over. It's not a great 'deal' but the trade off (we hope) is the experience as it's unlikely we'd get offered it again!

OP does your dog know any ex pats working for that company in NYC?- if so could he open some lines of communication with them. Might provide some first hand experience advice for you.

Can I ask - where do the ‘average’ people in NYC live and work?. I mean if there is a couple, 1 child, she’s a sales assistant, he works in an office - where do they live?- grocery shop etc?.

Should read does your dp

Deductibles and such can vary enormously so DO check. It could be as low as $500 but could also be much much more. My last baby only cost me $1K but that was several years ago. In NYC you have to be careful because some doctors do not participate directly with insurance and you will be liable for the difference between what insurance pays and what they charge (aka balance billing). There's been reports about nasty surprises with that, like anesthesiologists and neonatologists where you don't get to choose. (There's pending legislation to close this gap.)

You also have to remember that NYC is either 1st or 2nd for cost of living in the continental US so Americans also consider NYC expensive. If you look at national averages for example Americans pay slightly less for childcare than the UK (the UK and Switzerland are the only countries with more expensive daycare than the USA) but if you are in NYC you will pay more and center based daycare places can be tough to find--nannies are popular.

New York and New Jersey both have paid maternity leave if you've paid into the short term disability fund for long enough.

Where do ordinary people live? Fewer in Manhattan unless they are l lucky--even upper Manhattan is gentrifying now. Outer Boroughs in less fashionable neighbourhoods. New Jersey. There's big swathes of the Bronx and Queens that visitors never see. They shop at Key Food, Western Beef,Target, local stores.

thanks so much for all these replies! incredibly helpful and informative, i really appreciate it.

so H's salary will be $200k (just over double his current £ salary) plus he has significant shares and stock options as part of his package which are currently worth quite a lot and which we will cash out if we make the move, so that's a cash buffer. the health insurance deductible is $1000 per year for the 3 of us which i think is apparently good and we will have a $20k relocation grant to help smooth the transition. i wasnt aware that currently getting a work permit will take around 5 months but if we are careful we can also save a little towards covering that over the next few months. i like the look of hoboken, nj and some areas of queens plus we have a family member in bedford-stuyvesant who recommends it, not really looking to live in manhattan or williamsburg as we have been in a central/"trendy" very urban part of london paying crazy prices for a while.

also, we are not really likely to want to get pregnant while in the US for various reasons, so this isnt too much of a concern.

this sounds like a crazy question -- but is $200k going to be an ok salary for 2 adults and 1 child in the NY/NJ area, at least for the first circa 6 months? this is also with the first 3 months accommodation paid for, which i guess is worth a lot. yearly flights back are not included, and they probably wont budge on this. i think expat packages with these and school fees are less common now in some industries, i remember when i was a kid my dads expat package had all this but now im in a big corporate we dont include that in intl relocations (at least to western countries), which seems a shame for families but hey.