To teach DS a life lesson or just let it go…

[Whosthebestbabainalltheworld]

DS14 is a capable all-round student, but a bit lazy. He dislikes a particular subject, has decided he doesn’t want to study it and not surprisingly, performed poorly in his summer exam.

Teacher suggests he still aims for higher level in his state exams in 2 years (he could drop to lower level, which is an easier course, but cannot drop the subject entirely). In fact, in our schooling system it’s something he must study until he finishes secondary school (won’t be hard for some to guess the country, but not UK obviously). So once he drops to lower level that’s where he’ll stay for the next 5 years.

My dilemma is this….

Do I agree he can drop levels (despite being capable) or seek to teach him a life lesson - insist he sticks with higher level and pay for extra tuition which he will both hate and resent me for.

I’m torn, please help!

@gildalily - Life's too short to be stuck studying something you don't enjoy. Let him study at the level he's comfortable at. The only life lesson you'd be teaching him is that you don't value his judgement on what he likes and dislikes. Let him concentrate on what he enjoys doing.

He's a 14 year old boy. It's perfectly possible to value his judgement on what he likes and what he doesn't, while still recognising that he doesn't have the experience or maturity to fully understand the impact on his options in 5 years time.

But the OP hasn't said it's Irish or that she's in Ireland. She posted in AIBU not craicnet so it's a bit odd to tell her to ignore posters. It's also odd that you're assuming all other posters are English and in England. Maybe roll back some of your stereotyping

It's clearly irish.

It's a dead, pointless language

Let him drop to a lower lower paper. Life is too short to argue over it.

I never passed an Irish test in my life, the stress and fighting it caused in my house wasn't worth it.

My children have a natural grà for the language which is brilliant but I have a total hatred for it

@Getawaywithit - If he wants to do something popular like medicine, psychology. English, veterinary science, he will need a full house of 7/8/9. If he wants to go to college and be a car mechanic, not so much.

No idea what a "full house of 7/8/9" is but he definitely won't be getting them in his LC. Depending on whether it is maths, Irish, English or foreign language, he will either definitely or probably need it to gain entry to any college.

Echoing what pp said(sorry app acting up) if it's the teacher than you drop them, not the subject. If it's only for 1 or 2 years then a better one I'd pay for grinds in the mean time.

I wouldn't pay for tuition for a child who wasnt going to try. The life lesson is that if he doesn't do his best he won't achieve everything he's capable of.

Also if he needs paid tuition to keep up with the higher level then he's going to be more comfortable at the lower level.

@elizabethdraper - It's a dead, pointless language

Learning a language is never pointless. The cognitive benefits are well established.

Irish is also very much alive in parts of the country. The increase in popularity in gaelscoileanna and Gael coláistí would also suggest many disagree with you.

@ElizaDarcysDeeds

But the OP hasn't said it's Irish or that she's in Ireland. She posted in AIBU not craicnet so it's a bit odd to tell her to ignore posters. It's also odd that you're assuming all other posters are English and in England. Maybe roll back some of your stereotyping

I’m not assuming anything, but after living in England with a child in school there and teaching in English universities for 25 years, I can assure you I got a close-up, warts and all view of attitudes to languages and post-GCSE education.

[quote OchonAgusOchonOh]**@elizabethdraper* - It's a dead, pointless language*

Learning a language is never pointless. The cognitive benefits are well established.

Irish is also very much alive in parts of the country. The increase in popularity in gaelscoileanna and Gael coláistí would also suggest many disagree with you.[/quote]
Absolutely this. My son could have opted out of Irish when he entered the school system in Ireland, but I think Irish is important.

He's 14. He can't possibly know what he will need or not later in whatever career pursuits. If he's capable but lazy, maybe he'd be motivated with an offer of some sort of valuable reward for a good grade?

You only need lower level Irish for the vast majority of university courses so the discussion about it affecting his course choices is not really relevant.

@Anoisagusaris

You only need lower level Irish for the vast majority of university courses so the discussion about it affecting his course choices is not really relevant.

Yes that is true. But doing higher level at JC means ordinary level at LC will be much much easier as much of the basics will have covered at JC. Same for maths.

If it is a MFL then it might not be laziness in his part. At 14 my DD was in top group for Spanish, but dropped down to foundation for GCSE as she just couldn’t “get” it.
At 17 she was diagnosed with slow processing and dyslexia, it made learning foreign language incredibly difficult.

The Irish curriculum is quite broad and more strongly based on verbal skills than UK. Assuming this is Irish, OP's son will be studying at least one modern foreign language as well. So it is a good point @AvocadoPlant but probably not the case here.

I detested studying Irish, I saw no point in it and therefore did not excel in it at all. I found every class painful. I managed to attain very high points in leaving certificate, having dropped to ordinary level in Irish after JC. Mind you, also dropped to ordinary level French as well, so probably have a low level of linguistically ability!

I managed a full university education, including masters degree. Life is too short to be spent doing something you find painful!

Assuming it is the Irish education system, surely he can only be starting 2nd year now if he’s doing state exams in two years. In which case I wouldn’t be too impressed with him trying to set the bar so low at this early stage! It’s one thing if he’s not capable but the feedback from school is that he is and you yourself seem to suggest he just didn’t apply himself for his summer exams. I think I’d want him to try higher level for this year.

I don’t know why you’d consider getting a tutor as a life lesson though. If the point is to punish him it seems a sure fire way to make him even less inclined to work at the subject. Expensive and counterproductive I’d say.

@WhatsMyNameGonnaBeNow

Assuming it is the Irish education system, surely he can only be starting 2nd year now if he’s doing state exams in two years. In which case I wouldn’t be too impressed with him trying to set the bar so low at this early stage! It’s one thing if he’s not capable but the feedback from school is that he is and you yourself seem to suggest he just didn’t apply himself for his summer exams. I think I’d want him to try higher level for this year.

I don’t know why you’d consider getting a tutor as a life lesson though. If the point is to punish him it seems a sure fire way to make him even less inclined to work at the subject. Expensive and counterproductive I’d say.

Oh, I thought the OP was going to make him pay for his own grinds, but maybe you’re right, and I’m misinterpreting. I thought the life lesson was going to involve Junior trotting around mowing lawns and doing paper rounds to pay for his Irish tuition.

Depends on your own attitude to the subject - if it's something you really value or would like him to value then I'd put the extra effort into persuading him and using the subject in daily life a bit more and maybe the extra tuition as a last resort. If you can, sit with him while he does HL homework in it and chat about it. 14 is a bit young to just give up I think and it's really really difficult to go from OL to HL later on.

Pick your battles. If it will make a difference to his future prospects, make him do it but, if not, let it go.

@elizabethdraper

It's clearly irish.

It's a dead, pointless language

Let him drop to a lower lower paper. Life is too short to argue over it.

I never passed an Irish test in my life, the stress and fighting it caused in my house wasn't worth it.

My children have a natural grà for the language which is brilliant but I have a total hatred for it

I've never passed an exam in Japanese, Navajo or Urdu. I sure as shit wouldn't call them dead or useless just because I couldn't manage them. Do you honestly tell your DCs you think it's useless they speak their national language ?

If it is Ireland were talking about then as far as I recall ( at least this was the case when I did my leaving cert 15 years ago) you only need to pass English, Irish, maths and a foreign language unless you were studying something specifically related to a subject for example maths being needed at higher level for engineering or higher Irish for primary teaching.

Everyone sat at least 7 subjects and had a dud subject that they ignore for the points. If that's still the case let him drop down.

On a side not I hated how language central Irish education is. I was very bright at school (I tutored 2 of my mates through most of junior cert maths) but constantly called a dosser or lay about. My teachers hated me but now matter how much I tried I didnt understand how it was possible to get an A.

I was diagnosed with dyslexia during my PhD. My sister and me were tiered top for maths and bottom for languages. No one thought to question it and that still irritates me to this day.

Kids who dick about and get low grades at the end of 1st year and into 2nd aren't uncommon. I'd keep him at the higher level working hard, you can always reassess it post JC and even after 4th year. Send him to an Irish summer college if it's Irish, will do him the world of good.

@SionnachRua

Kids who dick about and get low grades at the end of 1st year and into 2nd aren't uncommon. I'd keep him at the higher level working hard, you can always reassess it post JC and even after 4th year. Send him to an Irish summer college if it's Irish, will do him the world of good.

I agree with this and would add that at 14 kids aren't mature enough to make decisions like this.

If it's Irish, I think once they're adults most people wish they were stronger in the language. I recently did a refresher Irish course and they are in huge demand for the over-30s.

I started watching TG4 (Irish language TV) with my kids and it helped them get more into it. I'd say be sympathetic rather than harsh, tell him you'll support him to improve to higher level and then reassess after the JC. We went through something similar with a dc and after being annoyed that they weren't putting in the effort we then took a gentler tack and sort of did it together - my dc may still do OL for the Leaving but at least their Irish is far better than it was. So yeah - tell him to do HL for now and that post-JC you'll reassess.

Might he get a better grade if he feels confident working at the lower level, than if he languishes at the bottom of the class studying the higher level, not to mention the knock-on affect of his impaired confidence. If he can get a 'good enough' grade at the lower level, for the next stage of his learning, I'd let him drop down and focus his energies on the other subjects.