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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To teach DS a life lesson or just let it go…

115 replies

Whosthebestbabainalltheworld · 30/08/2021 14:52

DS14 is a capable all-round student, but a bit lazy. He dislikes a particular subject, has decided he doesn’t want to study it and not surprisingly, performed poorly in his summer exam.

Teacher suggests he still aims for higher level in his state exams in 2 years (he could drop to lower level, which is an easier course, but cannot drop the subject entirely). In fact, in our schooling system it’s something he must study until he finishes secondary school (won’t be hard for some to guess the country, but not UK obviously). So once he drops to lower level that’s where he’ll stay for the next 5 years.

My dilemma is this….

Do I agree he can drop levels (despite being capable) or seek to teach him a life lesson - insist he sticks with higher level and pay for extra tuition which he will both hate and resent me for.

I’m torn, please help!

OP posts:

DGFB · 30/08/2021 16:58

I’d make him do it personally

Marni83 · 30/08/2021 17:00

When it comes to education at this age

No bloody what am I risking a life lesson when it comes to their education and exam success

Save the life lesson for things that are important to him but YOU know ultimately not important!

theleafandnotthetree · 30/08/2021 17:04

@PallasStrand

He keeps Irish on at honours level. It’s not difficult, he’s just being lazy.

Well yes but if he chooses not to work at it at all -and it's pretty hard to make a 14 year old do anything - it's not just going to come to him, nor can he bullshit it. He'll either fail Honours which is worse than passing Ordinary level or it will cost the OP a lot of money and hassle and arguments with him to drag him over the line. The only proviso is if he is really intersted in something career or college wise which requires honours Irish (primary teaching maybe?) but otherwise I wouldnt sweat it

Tal45 · 30/08/2021 17:10

Depends on the subject, if it's English or maths I'd make him stay up if it's RE I'd let him go down.

theleafandnotthetree · 30/08/2021 17:10

@M0rT

I'd let him decide but explain the implications for his Leaving Cert, so if he goes to ordinary level in Irish he is going to need to do Honours in all his other subjects and aim for honours in them. Will he be willing to that much work or does he want to try keeping honours Irish in case there is something he's even worse at? Don't feed the ego with bright but lazy either, I'm bright but lazy... potential doesn't pay the bills!

Why would he NEED to do honours in all his other subjects? You are working on the assumption that the key goal of life age 12 -18 is to maximise Leaving Cert points. Maybe this boy is intersted in subjects with lower points, maybe he wants to do a trade (I wish my children would!) or go straight to work or start his own business. It's better if children don't narrow their choices on a whim but academic children ironically are often the ones with the narrowest set of options in terms of what people expect from them, i.e. that they will go hell for leather to get the highest points possible.

godmum56 · 30/08/2021 17:12

I mean no offence but thinking globally, if it is irish.....its it valued anywhere outside of Ireland?....oh and the maths thing.....yes you will do better with a certain level of maths knowledge but unless you are going into the sciences then a higher level is not essential.

Tal45 · 30/08/2021 17:13

Sorry it seems it's Irish? I'd let him drop down, learning a second language you have no interest in is extremely tedious in my experience (5 years of pointless French that would never be at any useful level despite passing it). But to pass the lower level that fail the higher (if that's how it works.)

Lovemusic33 · 30/08/2021 17:18

Depends on the subject, obviously maths and English is important but languages not so important.
My dd struggled a bit with German but in the end still sat the higher paper but got a much lower grade than she did in her other subjects. German isn’t going to effect her future choices so it wouldn’t have mattered if she took the lower paper.

D3poster · 30/08/2021 17:23

If its maths or Irish I would push him to do higher level for Junior Cert if he will make any effort at all and won't be risking a fail - he will then have covered a lot of the ordinary level course for Maths or have hopefully improved a bit in Irish which also help with LC lower course.

It really depends on whether he is aiming for university and high points courses down the line. Not helpful I know.

We are in the same space with a bright but unmotivated lady! Its obvious to me at this point that the problem subjects in our house are linked to a very sarcastic maths teacher and another teacher who is very lazy, doesn't provide notes, bother with tests etc so I think grinds are worth a go to try to counteract that and build a bit of confidence. Not sure though that grinds will solve the issues without proper engagement

CremeEggThief · 30/08/2021 17:25

If it is Irish, I don't see the problem with doing Ordinary Level Irish for Junior Cert and Leaving Cert, unless he wants to be a primary or Irish teacher. (Only about a third of my school year in the 90s sat Higher Level Irish for the Junior Cert and most of the rest of us still accessed third level education.)

OchonAgusOchonOh · 30/08/2021 17:27

@godmum56

It's irrelevant whether it's valued outside Ireland. It's a requirement for most university courses so he has to do it. Higher level is only required for certain courses (primary teaching). Don't know if the Ceard Teastas is still a thing, but if it is, a decent standard is required for secondary teaching too.

godmum56 · 30/08/2021 17:32

OchonAgusOchonOh
"t's irrelevant whether it's valued outside Ireland. It's a requirement for most university courses so he has to do it. Higher level is only required for certain courses (primary teaching). Don't know if the Ceard Teastas is still a thing, but if it is, a decent standard is required for secondary teaching too."

yes but only in Ireland?

LH1987 · 30/08/2021 17:32

Is the subject Irish? If so let him drop to ordinary level, it will impact almost no future opportunity for him and if he hates it, it will take focus from other subjects.

JustJustWhy · 30/08/2021 17:36

Let him drop. My child didn't sit any exams due to severe mental health issues. Believe me, he can redo them whenever he wants to. Let him get on with what he wants to right now.

Moiraroseswigs · 30/08/2021 17:40

@godmum56 "only in Ireland" is a bit of a sweeping statement, so he shouldn't bother working a bit harder at 14 as he can always emigrate if he wants a career that he ends up not being eligible for? That's a very limiting decision for a 14 year old...

TheWholeJingbang · 30/08/2021 17:42

Is it Irish?

OchonAgusOchonOh · 30/08/2021 17:42

@godmum56

OchonAgusOchonOh "t's irrelevant whether it's valued outside Ireland. It's a requirement for most university courses so he has to do it. Higher level is only required for certain courses (primary teaching). Don't know if the Ceard Teastas is still a thing, but if it is, a decent standard is required for secondary teaching too."

yes but only in Ireland?

Given most Irish kids who go on to third level do so in Ireland, the entry requirements for Irish universities, ITs etc are relevant for the leaving cert.

RuggerHug · 30/08/2021 17:43

@godmum56

OchonAgusOchonOh "t's irrelevant whether it's valued outside Ireland. It's a requirement for most university courses so he has to do it. Higher level is only required for certain courses (primary teaching). Don't know if the Ceard Teastas is still a thing, but if it is, a decent standard is required for secondary teaching too."

yes but only in Ireland?

So he's to rule out teaching, government jobs, possibly higher points if he does the exams in Irish/just does it in higher level so rules out high point course because 'only in Ireland' ? It's the Irish education system he's in.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 30/08/2021 17:45

@LH1987

Is the subject Irish? If so let him drop to ordinary level, it will impact almost no future opportunity for him and if he hates it, it will take focus from other subjects.

I think that's a reasonable argument at leaving cert but the benefit of doing higher level at JC is that it will put you in a very good position for lower level at leaving cert as the standard at lower level LC is not a massive jump from higher level JC. That will allow them to focus more on the subjects they are using for points than if they had done lower level at JC.

gildalily · 30/08/2021 17:49

Life's too short to be stuck studying something you don't enjoy. Let him study at the level he's comfortable at. The only life lesson you'd be teaching him is that you don't value his judgement on what he likes and dislikes. Let him concentrate on what he enjoys doing.

YouMeandtheSpew · 30/08/2021 17:52

I’m not familiar with the Irish education system (assuming you are in Ireland) but in your shoes I’d be very reluctant to allow him to drop to the junior level if he’s fundamentally capable and it could impact on his options and prospects for tertiary education and jobs.

Getawaywithit · 30/08/2021 17:53

So maths or MFL? Much depends on what he wants to do in the future. If he wants to do something popular like medicine, psychology. English, veterinary science, he will need a full house of 7/8/9. If he wants to go to college and be a car mechanic, not so much.

My parents told me that all they wanted for me was to be happy in life and if sweeping the streets was enough for me then that was fine. But they also added that I owed it to myself to be the best qualified street sweeper I could possibly be.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 30/08/2021 17:57

I'm a bit torn.

If he's capable of achieving the higher grade, I'd be tempted to push him to take it. But if it's the teacher that's bothering him, then not so much.

I had a decision a little like this in my O levels (back in the dim and distant 80s in the UK) - one subject I should have taken because it fitted with my general pattern and aims, but I loathed the teacher, he was the pits and I had gone from being near the top of the class to almost failing my Y3 exams. So I didn't take it. I was then offered the option to take it in one year in my Lower 6 year - didn't want to, so didn't (the subject had been REALLY tainted for me). Me not taking this one course really affected my ability to comprehend another course, and I had to take a remedial course in it when I started university, doing a course that luckily didn't require it (although it would have been preferable). It also ruled out several degree options by me not having it.

In hindsight it would have been better if I'd dropped a stream level and got a different teacher and carried on with the subject - but at the time I was Done with it.

So if it's the teacher, I'd probably let him downgrade (especially as he isn't allowed to drop it at all) - but if he's just being slack over it, then get him to review what it would mean for his career options moving forward as to whether or not it would be wise to downgrade. IN fact, he should do that reviewing anyway - 2 years of pain as opposed to several years of "FFS, I should have just done it" is probably preferable, even though it doesn't feel like it at the time.

godmum56 · 30/08/2021 18:03

[quote Moiraroseswigs]@godmum56 "only in Ireland" is a bit of a sweeping statement, so he shouldn't bother working a bit harder at 14 as he can always emigrate if he wants a career that he ends up not being eligible for? That's a very limiting decision for a 14 year old...[/quote]
no but the world is a big place. Quite a few of the young people I know are doing college or uni level outside of their home country....they aren't rich, have done it with scholarships and so on....If he can't drop the subject in the system he is in then he can't, but I wonder how much effort and money its worth putting in on the chance of achieving it at a highter level?

PallasStrand · 30/08/2021 18:06

OP, I would ignore quite a few of the posts on here from people outside of Ireland. Some seem to encapsulate some of the worst aspects of English education, early specialisation and the idea that studying languages is fundamentally irrelevant and arcane.

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