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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DD saying her dad is scary.

151 replies

Shockedatthesystem80 · 29/08/2021 11:13

My daughter only sees her father in a contact centre.. We've been going through the family court for nearly 1.5 years so far and no closer to a final resolution.. She has a 2 hour session.
Most of the time her session is positive. Her father was extremely physically and mentally abusive towards her. He is a very cruel man who the last Judge got the better measure of and has refused his multiple requests to increase contact.
In recent weeks, she's been saying to other people that her daddy is scary and he hurts her, obviously the latter part isn't true as his session is completely supervised. I've taken her to the session as usual this week and she ran up to the supervisor and said "my daddy is scary" and got very upset. The supervisor looked puzzled and said why are you saying that you have lots of fun with dad. Then she asks me if it's OK to ask her why she's saying that, I said of course.. She has however been telling people at nursery the same thing lately and I've made an appointment for her health visitor to see her as I'm worried she is still being traumatised.
The supervisor text me during the session to say that she's having a nice time and ran up to him straight away and it's odd that she said "my daddy is scary"
I said to her, no it's not odd.. You only see 2 hours of her life.. You can't cast aspersions on anything else.. I said if you're trying to make inference that I would denigrate him in front of her then I don't take kindly to that.
My daughters father is so cruel and abusive, there is a reason why he's having supervised contact..
I feel like she's inferred I've basically told her to say he's scary and I'm really upset because Irrespective of how abusive he's been to us both, I absolutely would never denigrate him to or in front of her because quite frankly she's been through enough in her short life.
I'm not sure what the point in posting is, but I feel like these supervisors are siding with him when they are supposed to remain impartial. He plays dad's of the fucking year in his contact sessions, I swallow every bit of how I feel and supress my emotions and take her, I've never missed a single session to date.
I just don't like how I've been made to feel.

OP posts:

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 29/08/2021 22:08

@Shockedatthesystem80

But surely the order doesn't need varying to change contact centre. He will still be receiving supervised contact in an alternative contact centre. It's the manner in which it's been facilitated, despite multiple conversations with them. My solicitor even had to send them and the other side a letter with regards to the terms of the order and abiding by them.

No, but he'll have to agree surely? Do you pay half and half?

beastlyslumber · 29/08/2021 22:11

Local authority social workers are there to intervene when parents aren't keeping their children safe. As in actual risk of immediate harm. This situation does not fall into their remit.

Okay. Well given that you don't believe that there's any possibility of harm here, I'm not sure why I should take your word for anything.

I'm just trying to help. If OP speaks to a SW and they say they can't do anything, well so what? I suggested they may be able to advise on a next step. It doesn't seem like there's very much help for OP out there.

DogFoodPie · 29/08/2021 22:12

My worry would be that they will be giving such good reports of the contact that it will lead to the court considering unsupervised contact in future. If they are not recording any of the negative things that happened or which the dd said, ignoring anything OP says as she may be biased and just saying contact went well and dd was happy it doesn't give the full picture.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 29/08/2021 22:14

@beastlyslumber

Local authority social workers are there to intervene when parents aren't keeping their children safe. As in actual risk of immediate harm. This situation does not fall into their remit.

Okay. Well given that you don't believe that there's any possibility of harm here, I'm not sure why I should take your word for anything.

I've advised what she should do. Ask for a meeting with the supervision service. Raise her concerns. Apply back to court to vary the contact order if she has grounds to do that. I did not say there was no possibility of harm. I said that the type of harm does not meet the remit for local authority social work services. They aren't there to get involved in private contact disputes.

Kneesaregood · 29/08/2021 22:14

Op your solicitor sending a letter isn't evidence - you instruct your solicitor, they'll advise you but ultimately will do what you ask them to.

Im not suggesting that everything is perfect at the contact centre but it sounds very usual to me, and I worry that you're picking up on minor things because of your feelings about your ex.

(I mean that separate to the bigger issue about children being encouraged to see parents who have been abusive)

Original poster

Shockedatthesystem80 · 29/08/2021 22:15

Yes we both pay half.. But if he doesn't agree, he basically won't end up seeing his own daughter of his own volition.. I've done everything to make sure I adhere to this court order.. My car broke down one weekend and I paid 3 figures for a return taxi to contact out of my own money because I didn't want to breach the order.

OP posts:

squee123 · 29/08/2021 22:16

In your situation I would contact your local authority and arrange for her to be assigned her own social worker. Explain to them that you are seriously concerned that the trauma she experienced is impacting her mental wellbeing and see what they suggest. I would also look in to how you get her referred for specialist trauma therapy and start that process now. It will get her the help it needs and if the professionals find that seeing him is causing her to suffer further trauma they should be able to put that in a report which you can take back to court.

Whilst I appreciate it isn't an adoption situation, if you ask on the adoption boards I imagine you will get good advice on what sort of therapy options are available and how to access them as many parents on there will have had to help their children deal with similar trauma.

Good luck x

squee123 · 29/08/2021 22:22

Also have the police been involved? If not I would consider reporting the abuse to them. They will be able to arrange specialist interviewing as she likely does remember what happened. Getting him prosecuted for the abuse should help to protect her from him in the longer term.

I know it is added stress and trauma in the short-term, but you need to do whatever it takes to protect her from the risk of increased contact being ordered..

Aspiringmatriarch · 29/08/2021 22:24

One thing that stood out to me is that he was unsupervised with your daughter in the toilets. Surely that is a safeguarding concern? It sounds awful, I'm so sorry she's being made to see her abuser. I don't have experience of these things but I would say make sure you stay very calm and polite and measured, but ensure that anything which could be a concern is recorded officially. And definitely try to get some therapy for your DD.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 29/08/2021 22:24

@squee123

Good luck x

You can't just ask to be assigned a social worker! This is private law and contact issues, there is nothing here that a local authority social worker would get involved in.

Rosa8907 · 29/08/2021 22:32

God I’m so sorry you and your daughter are going through this. I had no idea people who had abused children got second chances! To me you abuse a child once and you lose any rights to see or care for them. Especially with a child so young who can’t understand or properly communicate if they don’t want to see their dad. I Can’t imagine what you’re going through :(

squee123 · 29/08/2021 22:33

You definitely can ask to have your child assigned a social worker if your child has been the victim of abuse. They don't have to assign you one of course, but if you call them and explain she has been the victim of abuse and you have safeguarding concerns they should at least consider it. I would lead with what she's saying now rather than with concerns over the contact centre.

And it isn't solely a private law matter. Abuse is a criminal offence and hence why I think the OP should pursue that if she hasn't already.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 29/08/2021 22:39

@squee123

And it isn't solely a private law matter. Abuse is a criminal offence and hence why I think the OP should pursue that if she hasn't already.

Please - I am a social work manager and I have worked in screening as a social worker. Any and all private law issues are referred back to get legal advice and apply to court if necessary. Social workers aren't there to retrospectively advise on therapy etc. This child is no longer being subjected to her father's abuse. The mother has removed her from the situation and the only contact she has is supervised. There is NO role or remit for a social worker. Please stop telling the OP to call social services. It's not the right avenue for her and will be a waste of time and energy.

Christmasfairy2020 · 29/08/2021 23:10

If he has hit or sexually abused your dd 'serious issues' as you stated why have you not pressed charges.

Original poster

Shockedatthesystem80 · 29/08/2021 23:12

I know the only way it can change is if we are a) in mutual agreement to change the contact centre or b) going back for a variation of the order. DD has a very extensive history with the local authority, but as far as they are concerned she is safe. I'm going to write an email addressing all the concerns. I've got my daughters health visitor coming over next week too.. I know they have no legal powers but we're awaiting a section 7 to be ordered and no doubt the author will speak to the health visitor as well as see all the previous history and how abusive and dangerous he is. Our last judge labelled him as out of control.
Irrespective of how positive his reports are, doesn't mean he's safe to be around in an unsupervised setting and it doesn't matter how much the contact supervisor misleads the court, because she's merely there just to supervise contact and nothing else.. They aren't there to make recommendations or suggest that contact progresses outside of the centre, that will be the job of the author of the section 7.

OP posts:

Original poster

Shockedatthesystem80 · 29/08/2021 23:14

@Christmasfairy2020

If he has hit or sexually abused your dd 'serious issues' as you stated why have you not pressed charges.

I did, I reported him to the police.. But the worst particular offence took place abroad so it was out of their jurisdiction.. I have reported him to children's services, they got involved and were about to initiate a child protection conference, however I fled and left him.. After that we just got ditched by children's services. The only light at the end of the tunnel has been cafcass but they don't have any further involvement yet.

OP posts:

Bizawit · 29/08/2021 23:38

@CloseYourEyesAndSee honestly your comments are so negative and I helpful. Ok so maybe social services isnt the way to go, but Why not focus on offering OP some constructive advice, which doesn’t just dismiss her very valid concerns , and imply that she has very little recourse to do anything to protect her child.

Bizawit · 29/08/2021 23:38

*unhelpful

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 29/08/2021 23:39

[quote Bizawit]@CloseYourEyesAndSee honestly your comments are so negative and I helpful. Ok so maybe social services isnt the way to go, but Why not focus on offering OP some constructive advice, which doesn’t just dismiss her very valid concerns , and imply that she has very little recourse to do anything to protect her child.[/quote]
I have!!! If you read my posts I have advised the OP exactly what she would be told if she called social services. Did you miss that?

Bizawit · 29/08/2021 23:40

I would also look in to how you get her referred for specialist trauma therapy and start that process now. It will get her the help it needs and if the professionals find that seeing him is causing her to suffer further trauma they should be able to put that in a report which you can take back to court

This sounds like good advice..

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 29/08/2021 23:40

And you know what - it's utterly utterly shit but once there is a court order setting out contact it's REALLY hard to protect your child. It shouldn't be the case but it is. OP knows this, she's more clued up about the system than most people posting on this thread.

Bizawit · 29/08/2021 23:45

If you read my posts I have advised the OP exactly what she would be told if she called social services.

You mean that they would tell her it’s nothing to do with them and that this Is a private dispute/ law matter?

From your posts as far as I can see you have said that:

She doesn’t have grounds to get the court order changed.
she should raise her concerns with the centre. (Sure she can do this, and probably should to tick the boxes, but since her complaints are about the person who apparently manages the centre, and who she believes to be biased , it’s hardly likely to be particularly fruitful is it?!)

Bizawit · 29/08/2021 23:49

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

this may be the case, but honestly it’s an incredibly unhelpful thing to say to the OP when she is reaching out for advice, especially in the manner in which this message is being delivered.

There must be some things OP can do to potentially fight this and some people have offered some helpful suggestions.

TheSilveryPussycat · 30/08/2021 00:03

In general, how are contact centres approved and monitored? And funded? Do they have service level agreements with the LA?

Innocenta · 30/08/2021 00:11

Did you watch the recent documentary on family courts? I know you've been through it yourself but I highly recommend watching ASAP to see exactly how careful you need to be. If I were you I would contact one of the lawyers or advocates interviewed for the documentary, as soon as you can. There is a very real risk that a man as abusive as this may try to weaponise the situation and claim you are alienating her.

I'm so sorry if comments here are making things feel worse, but please don't bury your head in the sand.

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