DD saying her dad is scary.

[Shockedatthesystem80]

My daughter only sees her father in a contact centre.. We've been going through the family court for nearly 1.5 years so far and no closer to a final resolution.. She has a 2 hour session.
Most of the time her session is positive. Her father was extremely physically and mentally abusive towards her. He is a very cruel man who the last Judge got the better measure of and has refused his multiple requests to increase contact.
In recent weeks, she's been saying to other people that her daddy is scary and he hurts her, obviously the latter part isn't true as his session is completely supervised. I've taken her to the session as usual this week and she ran up to the supervisor and said "my daddy is scary" and got very upset. The supervisor looked puzzled and said why are you saying that you have lots of fun with dad. Then she asks me if it's OK to ask her why she's saying that, I said of course.. She has however been telling people at nursery the same thing lately and I've made an appointment for her health visitor to see her as I'm worried she is still being traumatised.
The supervisor text me during the session to say that she's having a nice time and ran up to him straight away and it's odd that she said "my daddy is scary"
I said to her, no it's not odd.. You only see 2 hours of her life.. You can't cast aspersions on anything else.. I said if you're trying to make inference that I would denigrate him in front of her then I don't take kindly to that.
My daughters father is so cruel and abusive, there is a reason why he's having supervised contact..
I feel like she's inferred I've basically told her to say he's scary and I'm really upset because Irrespective of how abusive he's been to us both, I absolutely would never denigrate him to or in front of her because quite frankly she's been through enough in her short life.
I'm not sure what the point in posting is, but I feel like these supervisors are siding with him when they are supposed to remain impartial. He plays dad's of the fucking year in his contact sessions, I swallow every bit of how I feel and supress my emotions and take her, I've never missed a single session to date.
I just don't like how I've been made to feel.

@Yourstupidityexhaustsme

Do you trust the social worker/centre? If not, get your solicitor to send another letter outlining everything you’ve said here.

State you wish to see for a new supervisor to be appointed and you insist he adheres to his terms of the court order. If he won’t you want to go back to court and will cease visits. You want receipt of the letter in writing, if you receive no such validation you will take it that the visitation center that they cannot protect your child.

Refuse to adhere to the order. You have been more than amenable. You have tried reaching out but your concerns have gone ignored.

No. I don't trust them at all.. This is the second supervisor we've had as we had a man before, he didn't put that DD was crying and didn't want to go into the session in the contact report, I disputed it and he refused to change the report.. So I said I didn't want him supervising again.. It's a family run contact centre unfortunately.. The main lady who is supervising is the owner of the facility.. I feel really angry that the court order is just being ignored their end. I'm court ordered to arrive promptly for contact, I arrived 4 minutes before and see him coming in via the other entrance, DD and I had to hide in the toilets. It's completely unprofessional.

@AprilHeather

I find it so odd that people don’t think it is harmful for a child to be ordered by a court to see their abuser, dad or not.

This. It’s an absolute disgrace. What a warped society we live in.

I’m sorry for the situation you are in OP. Sounds like you are doing everything you can. I would raise a formal concern that the supervisor does not understand the situation, and is therefore not in a position to keep your child appropriately safe.

@Yourstupidityexhaustsme

Is the supervisor definitely not leaving him unsupervised? can you request a change of venue?

During this week's session, she walked away to come and speak to me in the other room leaving DD and him in the toilet, she wasn't far away from them but she was left alone in the toilet with him.

@beastlyslumber

You called it a 'serious safeguarding concern'. Where is the serious concern? Where is the risk of significant harm?

The concern is that the contact supervisor is not properly supervising the contact to keep the child safe from her father's abuse. In the absolute worse case, the risk is that she is colluding with or being groomed by the abusive father. It may be that on further investigation, there's nothing to be concerned about and OP's mind can be set at rest. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into. Brushing things under the carpet is never wise.

Yes, and that's why the OP should ask to speak to the supervisor's manager There is absolutely nothing that a local authority social worker could do in this case. Nothing.

Refuse to adhere to the order. You have been more than amenable. You have tried reaching out but your concerns have gone ignored.

Don't do this!!! This is terrible advice

@AprilHeather

I find it so odd that people don’t think it is harmful for a child to be ordered by a court to see their abuser, dad or not.

Who doesn't think it's harmful? It's court ordered. That's the issue. OP can't just stop or change contact without permission of the court. People telling her it's harmful that she has to take her to contact or encouraging her to stop are NOT helping.

There is no supervisors manager.. It's a family run facility. The contact supervisor we have is the owner of the facility.

During this week's session, she walked away to come and speak to me in the other room leaving DD and him in the toilet, she wasn't far away from them but she was left alone in the toilet with him.

Contact the manager and ask for an urgent review of contact. If she is the manager then request an urgent review with her. How much background information are you allowed to share with them?

@Shockedatthesystem80

There is no supervisors manager.. It's a family run facility. The contact supervisor we have is the owner of the facility.

Then ask for a meeting as above. How much background info have you shared with them? Who chose the contact centre?

I would never breach the court order or refuse to adhere to it. I've never had so much as a parking ticket so I'm not about to be in contempt of court. However I am really concerned, I don't know how to address it as there is nobody above her I can speak to. She's very quick to defend him when I say something. I don't trust them at all.

They had the court bundle from one of our hearing. They had all of the Cafcass letters, all our statements, all our evidence. She knows all of the history. She knows he's an abuser.

Did you post before about them letting him take her to the park alone?

You need to go back to court and get a different contact centre. They are not doing what they are supposed to do. They must be accountable to someone!

Yes, and that's why the OP should ask to speak to the supervisor's manager
There is absolutely nothing that a local authority social worker could do in this case. Nothing.

Okay. You suggested that there was nothing to be concerned about here. I think there is. Now you apparently agree with that but you're very angry about my suggestions. I'm not really sure what you want from me here. I would like OP to do whatever she needs to do to protect her child, that's all. No need to get pissed off with me about it. If there's no help to be got from child services then that's really shit. A pp suggested amending the contact order. That sounds like a good route.

I feel really trapped to be honest.

What organisation runs the contact centre? Would it be possible to contact them? Again, I suggest speaking to a SW to get advice on how to report your safeguarding concerns.

I agree with pp that going back to your solicitor is a good idea.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee I agree that those people encouraging a breach of the order are not helping - been through a similar situation to OP myself - so I don’t need you shouting it at me.

And contrary to what you say, it appears there are people on this thread who don’t think it’s harmful, or don’t fully grasp how harmful it can be. I was responding to comments made by people on this thread such as “ The child is not at risk of harm during contact” and “Where is the risk of significant harm?” and “If it's looked into and it's all fine, then fine.” This lack of understanding around mental harm, and lack of understanding that there is absolutely nothing fine about a child being forced to spend time with their abuser is such a problem in our society. It should be challenged. Until it is consistently challenged, courts will continue making these harmful decisions.

Without being too outing.. The contact centre hire a community hall for facilitation of contact. The contact centre is a family run organisation.. It was listed on the national association of contact centres, my solicitor made enquiries with several contact centre and that was the only one that had availability on the particular day that contact takes place on.. I just worry that she will be misleading the court. Their reports are often weeks late, they don't adhere to the time windows either side of arrival or departure, they allow him to feed her during contact when she spits out food and says no, and he tells her she has to eat it, they don't intervene to stop him.. She told me i need to accept he's always going to be part of my life and there's nothing I can do about it because we have a child together. I don't know what to do. I don't know about varying of the court order.. I don't oppose the supervised contact if I believed it was managed safely.. I do oppose contact completely. But I can't be seen to be saying that as its not child focused so I have to say I don't oppose supervised contact, it's the facilitation that's hugely concerning me..

I think you can contact NACCC directly. But it sounds like talking to your solicitor is going to be the best move. It should be possible to move contact centres as this one is clearly not adhering to the order.

There is so much that's wrong here; the main one being that you don't have a named contact to raise concerns and there doesn't seem to be a complaint system. Even supermarkets can manage that.

@beastlyslumber

*Yes, and that's why the OP should ask to speak to the supervisor's manager There is absolutely nothing that a local authority social worker could do in this case. Nothing.*

Okay. You suggested that there was nothing to be concerned about here. I think there is. Now you apparently agree with that but you're very angry about my suggestions. I'm not really sure what you want from me here. I would like OP to do whatever she needs to do to protect her child, that's all. No need to get pissed off with me about it. If there's no help to be got from child services then that's really shit. A pp suggested amending the contact order. That sounds like a good route.

Local authority social workers are there to intervene when parents aren't keeping their children safe. As in actual risk of immediate harm. This situation does not fall into their remit. OP needs to take it up with the service that is not providing what they should be providing, and should apply to court with evidence that they are not fit for purpose if she has said evidence. If someone called into social services with this issue that is exactly what they would be told, with a subtext of 'why are you contacting us about this, what do you think we can do about it?'

[quote AprilHeather]@CloseYourEyesAndSee I agree that those people encouraging a breach of the order are not helping - been through a similar situation to OP myself - so I don’t need you shouting it at me.

And contrary to what you say, it appears there are people on this thread who don’t think it’s harmful, or don’t fully grasp how harmful it can be. I was responding to comments made by people on this thread such as “ The child is not at risk of harm during contact” and “Where is the risk of significant harm?” and “If it's looked into and it's all fine, then fine.” This lack of understanding around mental harm, and lack of understanding that there is absolutely nothing fine about a child being forced to spend time with their abuser is such a problem in our society. It should be challenged. Until it is consistently challenged, courts will continue making these harmful decisions.[/quote]
I asked the question 'where is the risk of significant harm' because someone else was insisting it was a 'safeguarding issue' (it is not) and that OP should report to social services (she should not)
We know the courts regularly order contact for children with abusers that is harmful to the children. Sadly the only way to stop this is through the court. To change or stop contact OP will need evidence. She can only obtain that through addressing the issues with the contact centre.

is there anyway you can go back to court and get a variation due to the above problem with this contact centre

I am going to call my solicitor on Tuesday and ask her advice. I think I'll write the contact supervisor an email listing all the things that have just been listed and the fact there's no trust and I'm really concerned. There's so much wrong. I don't go there feeling like DD is safe in anyway.

@whynotwhatknot

is there anyway you can go back to court and get a variation due to the above problem with this contact centre

She really needs to request a meeting with the centre first. She needs to go through her concerns and discuss how to resolve them. Nothing the OP has said so far suggests this will be enough to vary the contact order IME.

But surely the order doesn't need varying to change contact centre. He will still be receiving supervised contact in an alternative contact centre. It's the manner in which it's been facilitated, despite multiple conversations with them. My solicitor even had to send them and the other side a letter with regards to the terms of the order and abiding by them.