To expect my small children to behave in a restaurant?!

[Whyemseeaye]

We've been out this morning to meet a few of DH friends, who we don't see often, for brunch at a nice restaurant.

Our DC are 20 months and 3.5 years old.

On the whole they're pretty good but I find their behaviour when dining out a bit challenging. They seem to pick up on that and up the ante.

This morning the eldest smacked DH, was whining and generally being a pain. The youngest refused to get in the high chair and started crying every time I attempted to get them in it.

Friends were v understanding. They have children who are slightly older.

I don't know what to do. We go out to eat at least once a week and sometimes they're fine, others not so much. Husband is in to "gentle parenting" which isn't really my style. I expect them to behave and to do what they're told.

I found this morning really embarrassing.

AIBU to think they're old enough to do a little bit better than today's efforts

I expect them to behave and to do what they're told. Good luck with that!

I think you're being pretty silly with your expectations.

You're expecting toddlers to do what they haven't learnt yet.

@Hungry675tf

What is wrong with gentle parenting? After what’s the opposite of gentle but rough? You think rough parenting is better?

*I do expect them to be respectful of other people and their surroundings. I don't think it's ever too young to expect that?!8 hahahaha

I have literally never heard of a male with an interest in gentle parenting, or more generally any text book parenting style.

I do expect them to be respectful of other people and their surroundings. I don't think it's ever too young to expect that?! hahahaha

I didn't think I was BU, but I obviously am! Thanks for the opinions. Perhaps I'm expecting too much of them and getting too stressed out about something that's not really that important.
Thanks all

I just avoided eating out with small kids, skipped the stress and now it's awesome now they are 4 and 7.

They're such lovely kids (IMO!) that I don't want to people who don't really know them to think they're badly behaved.

It makes me a bit frazzled

@Whyemseeaye

They're such lovely kids (IMO!) that I don't want to people who don't really know them to think they're badly behaved.

It makes me a bit frazzled

Best way I'd look at it, if I had kids and took them to a restaurant, is to prepare for war, but hope for peace,

@CookPassBabtridge

I just avoided eating out with small kids, skipped the stress and now it's awesome now they are 4 and 7.

This was us too - eating out with kids that age is no fun at all. It does get much better but you're expecting too much from them as they're so little!

Nobody’s going to think a 20 month baby is badly behaved.

I mean this nicely
I'm sure they are lovely
And nobody else gives the shiniest shit
I doubt anyone in the restaurant even remembers you or your dc at this point
And certainly won't be wasting headspace about how lovely or not they are

@Whyemseeaye

They're such lovely kids (IMO!) that I don't want to people who don't really know them to think they're badly behaved.

It makes me a bit frazzled

Why would it matter if people who don't know them think they are badly behaved?

My children were noisy and unhappy at times when very little, they were not being badly behaved.

I certainly would not have cared what a stranger thought, I knew what my kids were like and what was reasonable at each age.

'Gentle parenting' eh?
Is this the latest ruse for someone to make money via a book or website or two? ( See ' Brain Gym'; ' Learning Styles' etc in education)

Use your common sense OP. Babies and toddlers have short attention spans and don't like sitting still for long. That's why McDonald's exists!

What is wrong with gentle parenting? After what’s the opposite of gentle but rough? You think rough parenting is better?

The opposite of gentle parenting is “parenting”.

I have a nearly 4yo. She behaves in restaurants for up to an hour or so because we frame restaurant visits as a treat (special food, juice for her etc) - ie stop behaving and we immediately leave and go home. But it’s not enjoyable for me, and only really works if the timing of everything happens to fall into place. 20 months I’d be doing quite a lot of walking outside with them to distract.

I can just about do it in a typical casual restaurant as a family; with friends I really wouldn’t. It feels, to paraphrase that phrase about yachting, like it’d be cheaper, faster and less stressful to stick your head in the restaurant door, hand over £30-40 in an envelope and just keep walking.

@Whyemseeaye

Thanks *@GobbleHobble* some useful advice there. I do think on the days we take them out and the timing is right and they're in a good mood it's all lovely. Today wasn't great and it was pretty stressful.

I'm not expecting them to be silent and sit there like statues. Especially not the youngest.

I do expect them to be respectful of other people and their surroundings. I don't think it's ever too young to expect that?!

We bring books, colouring pens, a few toys and an iPad for backup so they've got some stuff to do. We also get them to look at the menus and surroundings.

Of course 20 months is too young to respect other people and their surroundings! 3 year old, maybe, depending on child, but yes your expectations are way too high of the 20 month old.

No. They aren't old enough to sit quietly and behave in a restaurant. That's where you and your husband come in. They have to be taught and that includes being firm. I removed mine from more than one restaurant for playing up. They learned.
It is totally unrealistic to expect children that young to sit quietly of their own accord like little adults. They are still in training. It's the quality of the training that should be happening now that will determine whether they will be behaving well in restaurants in 5 years time!

In addition to other suggestions, make sure they've had plenty of exercise shortly beforehand, so that they're more willing to sit (but ideally not outside if it's windy - that always winds up kids of any age).
We used to take DD for a walk to the toilets between courses (whether needed or not), which broke things up and gave her a wriggle without disturbing others.

With a 3yo you have a chance of this working. They are old enough to start understanding, though mood will still play a huge factor. The 20 month old is just a wild card. If you take a 20 month old out to eat you need to be prepared for one of you to be up and walking in the lobby or outside dealing with the toddler while the other eats. Of course that can still happen with a 3yo but it’s much less likely.

A toddler and a baby can't be expected to sit through something boring. They are naturally active and will obviously show displeasure

@TheWayTheLightFalls

The opposite of gentle parenting is “parenting”

No it’s not. Parenting is the general term for raising children. Then within parenting you have different types of parenting, and gentle parenting is one of the types of parenting. So the opposite of gentle parenting cannot be parenting.

It’s like saying the opposite of a cat fish is a fish. Nonsensical statement.

In a similar situation DH or I would either divide and conquer; dealing with one child each. Or one of us would take them both outside and wait for a text to say the food had arrived.

I wouldn’t expect them to behave but would be teaching them about what is/isn’t acceptable behaviour through my actions and tone (calm but firm).

This is a long haul learning curve so try and see it as stepping stones to get to the ultimate goal - kids you can take out and feel relaxed with.

Nobody is going to expect either child to sit nicely in a restaurant.
But a lot of people aren't going to want to sit next to them either.

plan you’re smart enough to understand, I think, that my comment reflects my views of gentle parenting.