To think no way should I creep and apologise?

[Suntrap]

Hi all
I need urgent response as I'm away on holiday with DP and DC and also a group of family are coming today (different accommodation) and will be spending time with them. Although even if they weren't, the question would be the same

So havent been getting on great with DH for a couple of months. Been together a long time so not a massive issue as we always work things out.

Anyway couple of weeks ago we had a big row and it wasn't my fault
If it was, I'd apologise. Tbh, hes less likely to discuss things and 'talk '. His solution to arguments is leave it a few day to blow over and thinks all is okay.

I hate this approach, but if he has done something to really upset me then he will make a fuss and say sorry and kiss angry hug etc. But mostly he just thinks let things go and all will be okay.

So build up to the holiday, he seemed very annoyed with me still. No attempt to make amends. I kind of tried to broach the subject and that we were going away and not a good atmosphere and he didnt seem to give a shit.

I couldnt face any more eye rolls and 'oh God, dont start' comments if I asked if all was okay, so I left it.

So we go to our holiday home thurs evening and all seemed well. We were talking normalish and having a laugh. Normally in one of these situations, one of us would say "let's forget it and have a nice holiday, you know I love you blah blah".
I was hoping this would happen, but I wasnt prepared to be the one to say it as he was bloody horrible to me before we came away.

I know it sounds like I'm playing a silly game, but I'm not. We have been together 20+ years and have 4 DC. So we arent young kids.

Anyway, so I thought we were on the right track. Was looking forward to a fun time, affection, kisses and cuddles and bloody sex!!!!

So 2 days in and he seems quite happy with a kind of civil but not a massively brilliant approach.
No attempt to be nice. Hes not horrible but very matter of fact.
Now I could say
"Hey let's have a good holiday, forget our row!"
But I actually feel like saying WTAF?
Also, I dont want to cause a other row!!
What should I do? If it were my family coming today I'd think bollocks and ignore him!
Seriously though, holidays are precious and I dont want another week of just being civil and general chit chat. I feel like I'm away with a work colleague.

Regardless of whether he thinks he did anything wrong or if he thinks you overreacted, you've told him it upset you and that should be enough.
I'd see how he behaves with his family there later and decide after that.

@SharpLily

I have one rule I use in situations like this. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

If him apologising to you is a hill you want your usually happy marriage to die on then carry on as you are but as you say you always work it out then is ruining your holiday worth it to you for the sake of his apology? Is his apology more important to you than enjoying your holiday?

How can either scenario make OP happy? If swallowing anger will make things seem normal, OP will still be seething inside and it will be the first among issues that get bottled up. In my experience this results in an angry outburst and an even bigger row down the line.

If the passive aggressive tension remains, then OP won't be happy either.

Seems like a no-win scenario and a garanteed miserable outcome.

I think you need to say to him that you aren’t feeling right and would appreciate talking through what he happened the last couple of months as it’s upsetting you. Rather than demand apologies and say how awful he’s been (even if you do deserve an apology and he has been awful) just tell him you want to be able to get to a point where you can both acknowledge how the other is feeling. Set some rules to stop it turning into an argument- for example you can’t tell the other person what they were thinking. Hopefully that will clear the air and let you move on. There are some disagreements that don’t get resolved.

To be honest I wouldn't have gone away with him unless things were resolved beforehand, but you're there now

I would be quite pointed in front of his family about how he is being moody and shitty with you, and see if that shames him into having a proper conversation.

Long term, is he worth it?

I think if you apologise when he is the one who has been shitty, you're feel resentful and miserable
He knows perfectly well that he has upset you. He almost certainly knows that he was shitty to you.

The big question is why he isn't prepared to apologise/discuss. Why he doesn't care that you are upset
I have a feeling this may be a bigger issue than a spoiled holiday
But - for the holiday, go off and chat to other people, be bright and breezy and let him stew/sulk.

OP

I could have written this.

This has happened so many times now.

And we have little time together and about 75% of instances when we do are completely ruined like that.

I think he’s angry that you dared be upset at him originally, and not just bite your tongue.
And then angry again everytime you brought it up for the same reason.

So basically you annoy each other
If it’s him he kisses you and says ok let’s forget it
And if it’s you he ignores you for a few days until one of you says ok let’s forget it

Do you ever actually deal with any of the issues?

And if you’ve been doing this routine for 20 years why have you chosen this time to make a stand?

Just ask him what the issue is. Get through the holiday, or don’t, leave.

Then deal with your marriage when you get home

It's so hard to know what's going on here. You're upset because some weeks ago he said something you found hurtful. He's upset because he expected it to have blown over and you kept bringing it up. Neither of you want to apologise, and presumably you both see the situation quite differently, so you're in a kind of awkward, unfriendly stalemate. Is that about the size of it?

That sounds difficult to resolve if you are both feeling unwilling to give any ground. Was the initial row so bad that you cannot let it go, or is it more the case that you felt you didn't completely 'win' so you want to keep it open until he gives in? Without knowing what happened, it's hard to say whether you should just let it go. It does sound like both of you should let it go. But the fact that you're both holding onto it suggests that the problem isn't this row and what was said, but the bigger issue of how you communicate and make one another feel.

I would suggest that you talk to your husband, tell him you really love him (if that's true) and tell him all the things that make him a great husband and father (if he is). Just focus on the positive things and the things that make you feel good about him. Let him know that you'd love to put your differences aside for now so you can enjoy your precious time together, and that when you get home, you think it would be a great idea to see a counsellor for a couple of sessions to work through how you can get past this row. It might be that if you approach it in a really positive and loving way, he'll open up and you'll sort it out between you. But counselling is still probably a really good idea.

I hear you. I feel like I am always the one to make the first move so I decided I wouldn't. I found it was making me feel more rubbish when he didn't. However the last time I was determined I was not going to say anything. He actually came to me later and apologised and if made it worth more that he said sorry first.

There’s letting go of a grudge though, and then there’s glossing over someone treating you like shit just to keep the peace.

OP’s husband was deliberately horrid to her and hasn’t apologised for it. She’s not ‘holding a grudge’ she’s understandably upset and hurt.

This. I’d be very very fed up. When his folks arrive I’d observe him being normal and say to them that’s more words than he’s said to me in the past week, so I’m off out to dinner and I’ll leave you to it. Don’t let him pull the silent treatment on you then expect you to pretend for his family.

That's everyone so much for your input.i will give some proper replies later but we got stuff to do now.

Its all give me food for thought.
I think maybe it is toxic.
Hes a good bloke. A reliable decent normal man. Not a great talker whereas I am.i belive in sorting stuff and then moving on. He thinks rows are solved by keeping out of the way for a day and then it is sorted . Leaving the issue unresolved. And me with simmering resentment.
He just wants a quiet life I guess.

All well and good but this time the argument was something I dont want to forget.

You are both stuck. Punishing yourselves. One of you has to be strong enough to break it. Can it be you?

@Nogardenersworld

So basically you annoy each other If it’s him he kisses you and says ok let’s forget it And if it’s you he ignores you for a few days until one of you says ok let’s forget it

Do you ever actually deal with any of the issues?

And if you’ve been doing this routine for 20 years why have you chosen this time to make a stand?

Just ask him what the issue is. Get through the holiday, or don’t, leave.

Then deal with your marriage when you get home

No precisely We never resolve it. Usually its silly stuff thats not worth it. This time I'm properly upset

If this isn't normal behaviour, then you have to assume that there is another dynamic in play.

Find that dynamic, because that might be a game changer.

He sounds like he has checked out and in my experience, men don't mentally check out unless they have somewhere else to mentally be..

I'm sorry OP, but this might be the tip of the problem iceberg.

@Bonheurdupasse

OP

I could have written this.

This has happened so many times now.

And we have little time together and about 75% of instances when we do are completely ruined like that.

I think he’s angry that you dared be upset at him originally, and not just bite your tongue.
And then angry again everytime you brought it up for the same reason.

Yes Its horrible I'm not a proud person but I'm not begging him or apologising when hes been horrible like this.

One piece of advice a good friend gave me when I was constantly moaning about a similar ongoing argument was try to break the pattern. Do something unexpected. Give him a massive hug and say 'I'm so happy we are all here on holiday' or laugh at his jokes. Take the kids out for the day by yourself to give him some time. Just break the stalemate. This is NOT the same as giving in. You still get to have your turn to say how hurt you are, but if you both just keep doing the same thing in the same dynamic, then you will simply get more of the same shit, possibly for some more weeks. Break the cycle and then work out how you can express your hurt. He feels like you don't like him very much any more (you probably don't) and that's set up a cycle where you are both rejecting each other- even if he made an overture to you, you want your apology first and so on. Try something different.

It might not work. If he pulls away/is horrible, then you have a bigger problem on your hands than what you think this row is all about. Usually most people are keen to make up even if they are proud or think they are in the right, so if he isn't then there may be more going on, and I'd sit down and ask him directly exactly what.

My husband did exactly this on our most recent holiday.

He did it a few years ago as well.

Both times I was left to pack the kids and get everything sorted. He did precisely fuck all to help, while the toddler was hanging off my boob and the older kids were squabbling. He would be out 'sorting his car' which is code for putting the bonnet up and sitting on his phone smoking for 2 hours.

Then I get stressed out and snap. Just the once.

So he gives me the silent treatment in exactly the same way your DH is. He will drag it on and not take account for what he did or did not do.

Apparently I should have told him what to do.

Apparently all I had to do was "pack a few things".

He basically ruined the majority of the holiday because of his twat-brat behaviour. It was truly pathetic.

At one point I 'lost' him and the toddler for 2 hours so I went off by myself and found the older kids and hung out with them for a while to get away from him and have a break from the face like a slapped arse.

And if you’ve been doing this routine for 20 years why have you chosen this time to make a stand

There is a theory of which I'm not a huge fan but it lays out timescales for which people stay with things before they can't resist the urge to change. For some people it's months - there's a group for which the tipping point is 20years.

Motivation decision factors
More commonly called the Relationship Filter – Sameness and Difference.

This relates to how often we need to change things in a particular context. Does the successful fulfillment of objectives demand creating a revolution, building upon what is already there, or maintaining the status quo. A combination of options and difference can lead to compulsive change.

Sameness
Sameness is 5% of the population. They may accept major change every 10 years and will actually provoke change every 15 to 20 years in a given context.

Sameness with exception is 65% of the population. They prefer evolution over time, improvements, and need change every 5 to 7 years.

nlp-mentor.com/words-that-change-minds/

It's possible the relationship has gone along with neither partner doing anything about it and they've both arrived at the 20 year point round about the same time.

It sounds very much like the way my DH and I behaved around disagreements. I like to resolve things immediately with a discussion, he likes to let time pass and not discuss. It builds up the hurt in me and I then dwell on the disagreement and can’t move on.
We are very compatible in all over ways but struggled to resolve disagreements. We had counselling which helped us both understand each other’s needs. In a lot of arguments neither party is totally right or wrong, the first step is to realise the other persons feelings are as valid as the other person’s and acknowledge that. You don’t have to have a winner or loser.
It sounds to me that you are currently blaming DH for the bad atmosphere, it’s likely you are also being a bit distant because you feel hurt too and he may be sensing that and reacting in his own way.

You don’t necessarily have to discuss an argument in depth to resolve, in any relationship people have disagreements; the important thing is to find ways to resolve which work for both of you and acknowledging how the other person feels is always the first step.

Reminds me of that poem

To keep your marriage brimming
With love in the loving cup
When you're wrong, admit it
When you're right, shut up.

Someone who would rather stay silent on the matter than admit and apologise doesn't want to admit they're wrong/thinks they're in the right.

I don't think I could stay in a relationship like that no matter how good the good bits were.

Not being accountable for your actions is one of the biggest turn offs.

@Suntrap

That's everyone so much for your input.i will give some proper replies later but we got stuff to do now.

Its all give me food for thought.
I think maybe it is toxic.
Hes a good bloke. A reliable decent normal man. Not a great talker whereas I am.i belive in sorting stuff and then moving on. He thinks rows are solved by keeping out of the way for a day and then it is sorted . Leaving the issue unresolved. And me with simmering resentment.
He just wants a quiet life I guess.

All well and good but this time the argument was something I dont want to forget.

So it seems to be that there are three options here:

• swallow your pride, apologise and move on. This might redeem the holiday but it won't solve your long-term issues.
• solve your long-term communication issues (both of you appear to have quite dysfunctional communication styles) - this will probably involve counselling and a lot of soul-searching.
• decide that enough is enough, say your goodbyes and end the marriage.

You can't just continue like this. Both yours and his way of coping with arguments are dysfunctional imo.

Before I was married to my dh, I would have absolutely been like you. But he has taught me that being generous with an apology when it isn’t his ‘fault’ creates so much good feeling and demonstrates that being happy and working things out is more important than being right all the time. So I’ve started doing it now (not thy we have many rows). It doesn’t feel comfortable at all and I have to force myself but it is so worth it. It leads to open conversation about how we feel and more consideration of the other.

I know it sounds like I'm playing a silly game, but I'm not. We have been together 20+ years and have 4 DC. So we arent young kids.

You may not be kids but both if you are behaving as if you are.

You've had some very good advice and ideas here.

The "be happy or be right" is probably good for small disagreements, but if you are deeply upset, you should not cave in, as it gives your husband a free pass to behave as he pleases.

Is there is something going wrong with the way that you manage conflict in the first instance? How did you get to the point where he was "really shitty". Do you tend to resolve argument or apologise quickly before they escalate?

Do you both have ground rules/natural courtesy about how you disagree or argue? e.g. no swearing, storming off, name-calling, silent treatment, cool-off period?

I bet he is as nice as pie when his family arrive and that would really piss me off.