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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday PART DEUX

999 replies

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 00:41

First thread

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4332702-to-not-want-an-awake-child-around-at-11pm-when-i-m-on-holiday

OP posts:
GromblesofGrimbledon · 28/08/2021 20:38

@CoronaPeroni

I often wonder what the rest of the class are doing when these gentle conversations are taking place though

It's a free for all! It won't necessarily be one gentle conversation either, half a dozen miscreants might be lining up for the 'talk' and the next thing you know an hour has gone by.

This is exactly it. If there was an "incident" (usually in the playground) then the children will be taken out for a restorative conversation one at a time, then as a group. All the he said, she said whinging you can imagine. The teacher takes a precious little notepad out with them and takes notes like a therapist. By the time they've got round them all I've seen teachers in the corridor for a full hour of an afternoon dealing with children's inconsequential little playground spats.

DoWhatYouWantToAndShh · 28/08/2021 20:43

@SpicyJalfrezi

I don’t particularly like the term gentle parenting, mostly because it does tend to encompass some ridiculously impractical and often silly sort of ideas. It conjures images of outraged mummies because someone said No to their child, or (a popular one on a Facebook group I was a member of) gran or grandad said ‘naughty boy’ or similar, and it does all often get really silly and it can produce children who are difficult to be around.

But as I have said, there are extremes, and the other extreme which is being lauded on here is damaging too.

When I was little, from the outside everyone would probably have said that the ‘strict’ approach had worked well, for my brother and myself. We were always extremely well behaved, mostly because on the rare occasion we weren’t, we were shouted at, sometimes smacked and our crime (such as it was) would be mentioned forevermore. (I was once a bit giddy and silly at a relatives house when I was maybe about six, my mother was still bringing it up a good seven years later.)

We were scared of our parents, in short. We did love them, and we knew they loved us - it wasn’t all oppressive and tyrannical, but yes, we were scared. They were both teachers, too.

It made us both pretty sneaky in some ways, because we couldn’t just confide and admit if we’d messed up. My brother was moved down a set in Maths at secondary school and was petrified of them finding out - it seems crazy now but he genuinely was so worried about it. When I was a bit older I had a boyfriend and I had quite a few problems with being coerced into stuff I wasn’t comfortable with but I couldn’t tell my mum as she’d have been furious I had a boyfriend at all.

I want my children to know that I have their back, I suppose. Sometimes yes, I am their mum and will insist on brushed teeth and the like. And I wouldn’t deal with Alyssa as this mum is, but I wouldn’t approach parenting like the OP either. I don’t think either are parenting styles to emulate.

Sounds like my parents as well. Very strict. Not allowed to stay at friends houses etc. I had huge anxiety and yes I was sneaky as well.

Very much of the...do as I say ... style.

I remember my mother yelling at me one day over putting mousse in my hair, literally screaming that it looked shit.. why had i done it?
Plenty of congratulatory moments from my parents as well. They'd have written that I go to bed and stay there, I do well in school.. until suddenly i didn't. I moved out as soon as possible. Live as far as you can away from them.

They loved me. I loved them. But it wasn't healthy

drspouse · 28/08/2021 20:45

Children, especially toddlers, are not old enough to understand explanations about why we should be kind to our siblings.
Some need to be told no. Some need a reason to be kind. Some need consequences. For some, consequences don't work very well (my DS used to try to get on the Thunder from Sunshine in Y2, and succeeded several times a day) and rewards and routine work better.
But a long explanation about feelings is not helpful to a mini human being who has no powers of reason yet.
That is the essence of why gentle parenting isn't helpful.

Window1 · 28/08/2021 20:45

Frangi, hope you and friend are knee deep in wine and adult conversation making up for all the chat missed out on this week.

Dddflower · 28/08/2021 20:46

Im looking forward to the next update!

1AngelicFruitCake · 28/08/2021 20:47

Another one here hoping it’s going well OP. Ignore all the people judging you for judging your friend 🤔 and update us!

cookingisoverrated · 28/08/2021 20:48

@amillionmenonmars

Ah, new ideas in school discipline policies. The gentle parent skills that now operate in the classroom. It seems that pretty much all schools have now bought into this.

Child is a bully, disruptive, non cooperative? No worries. Just allow the child to have a time out (actually many, many time outs), while they go off with the behaviour team or a member of SLT for a nice chat, a swing in the staff member's comfy chair and a hot chocolate so they can talk about how horrible Mrs Teacher is being so mean making him/her listen in silence whilst instructions are given to the class and the - dear God - expecting him/ her to produce some written work without kicking the student in front of them or shouting out every ten seconds.

In fact, give the child a laminated pass so that they can work the system more efficiently. The child knows the rules of the behaviour system better than any lawyer, so they will stay in class for as long as possible, getting all of the attention they crave. They will work their way through the numerous warnings and pre warnings (X, if you shout in my face again I will give you a warning. X you were told that if you did that again you would be one a warning, so this is your first warning - this has to be repeated THREE times with time in between to allow the child time to reflect and adjust their behaviour). They know they have a right to go through each of these steps before they can finally be ejected and earn behaviour points on their record.

The child knows that as they finally reach the very end of the process that they can trump all of this with the laminated card. Off they toddle, grinning at their mates to have a nice chat and a hot chocolate. leaving behind a disrupted lesson, a frazzled teacher and many disgruntled kids. It's not long before a whole stream of kids are lining up for their own laminated card.

This is why I'd rather die than teach primary. Discipline and consequences are far more structured in secondary school and I couldn't in good conscience have a chat "unpacking" behaviour with a manipulative 10yo who just thumped a little girl

I can confirm it's infuriating and really sucks for all the other children who are having to watch this go down with the same handful of children day in and day out. And they get the added privilege of being hurt by some of these children, too, and to them, nothing ever really happens.

And the parents of a large percentage of these children are even worse than the children... the direct source of the problems.

Spotsmum · 28/08/2021 20:49

Pretty sure OP is playing Dobble right now 😔

peachykeenjellybaby · 28/08/2021 20:50

I'm with you OP. I think the odd night of a kid playing up but Alyssa has dominated every single evening. Disappointing!

I bet this is just her normal routine though. Mum probably panders to her every evening which is why she knows theres no point trying to change for the holiday

1AngelicFruitCake · 28/08/2021 20:51

I can confirm some parents make teaching impossible in primary. Sad really. I worry how much attention my own children get when I know how much attention will be given to a few out of 30.

SecretKeeper1 · 28/08/2021 20:54

It does get easier, Frangi.

When preteens won’t bugger off, simply start chatting to them about boyfriends / girlfriends / puberty / sex education. You don’t see them again for hours.

MeridianB · 28/08/2021 20:54

Chances are this whole week ends with Op and 3breakfasts feeling exhausted, heading to bed and leaving Alyssa sipping wine and watching Netflix downstairs…..

NewlyGranny · 28/08/2021 20:55

HurryUpAndWait23, I never said it was simple! It is straightforward, yes, but it takes total consistency and if you ever give in for an easy life, you're back to square one with everything to do again.

Children, whether a handful of your own or thirty odd of other people's, are like water under pressure: they test your weak points relentlessly.

It's not easy but it does largely work. I do feel for teachers who have loopy behaviour policies to follow, likewise people with a co-parent who undermines an agreed approach.

But I'll accept your blessing because one can never have too many; have one yourself from me.

happinessischocolate · 28/08/2021 20:57

@mumjustmum

I'm now understandably put off from reading the two how to talk books on my shelf - appreciate the warning! Can anyone recommend a good book please? I have a 2.8yr old and twin 1.8yr olds. Thank you
1,2,3 magic by Dr Thomas Phelan

Saved my sanity when my kids were younger

BrightYellowDaffodil · 28/08/2021 21:02

One swig for every 5 minutes 3Breakfasts spends upstairs
One swig for every time A comes down
3 swigs for every game of Dobble
Full glass down in one if the OP goes to bed without spending any time with her friend

Steady on, I’ve got to drive tomorrow Grin

Spotsmum · 28/08/2021 21:06

Alyssa's currently posting on Kidsnet about this mum who won't go to bed so she can play dobble cards

PartyPotato · 28/08/2021 21:07

Drink for every minute past 9 until OP gets back to us

1AngelicFruitCake · 28/08/2021 21:08

@Spotsmum

Alyssa's currently posting on Kidsnet about this mum who won't go to bed so she can play dobble cards
Love this comment!🤣
1AngelicFruitCake · 28/08/2021 21:09

I’ll be so grumpy if people have put OP off from replying! Living for this thread!

proudwomansexmatters · 28/08/2021 21:12

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

The hen do thing reminds me of a 'first warning' I got on a gentle parenting FB group actually! Someone said they didn't want to leave their 3 month old at home to go for a meal part of a hen do - fair enough. But people were saying 'take her along! I couldn't think of a better guest at a hen do' Hmm I commented saying do not take the baby you will piss everyone off and as much as you love your child no one wants a baby at an adult meal it would be very rude. And I got a PM saying I was on my first warning 😂😂
😂.

I got banned from the gentle parenting group when I pointed out that the admin was incredible rude and hypocritical to give abuse to a poster on there about how she spoke to her child when she clearly couldn't see that she was doing the same thing that she was chastising the poster about!

I like some aspects of the gentle parenting model. But some people take it to be an excuse for piss poor avoidance parenting. A bit like the "be kind" crew who hands down are the worst PA bullies and insincere individuals I've ever met.

PartyPotato · 28/08/2021 21:14

@1AngelicFruitCake imagine if she ghosts us and we never get closure 😩

torchh · 28/08/2021 21:14

[quote PartyPotato]@1AngelicFruitCake imagine if she ghosts us and we never get closure 😩[/quote]
It's already happening.

BruceAndNosh · 28/08/2021 21:14

I'm in bed.

My name is not Aylessa

Yesitsbess · 28/08/2021 21:14

@BrightYellowDaffodil

Indeed, I have to masquerade as a grown-up tomorrow and the catch-up was harsh. Thimbles everywhere.

PartyPotato · 28/08/2021 21:15

@proudwomansexmatters banned from a gentle parenting group? Thats not very gentle of them is it. Didn’t they want to talk it through?