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Original poster

To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

730 replies

Needapoodle · 27/08/2021 08:41

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

OP posts:
IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:13

Interesting that you think only Tories are pro-Wallace/anti-Pen, because I have a completely reverse opinion of the sort of people who get more emotional about rescue animals than Afghan civilians.

I get emotional about it all. I’ve found it difficult to continue my normal life, my heart breaks for the people of Afghanistan. But this obsession some people have of blaming the situation on Pen Farthing is strange. I think there been a very organised attack on Pen online. And in turn there has then been an attack on Ben Wallace.

SueSaid · 27/08/2021 11:14

@IAmSuperman you're perpetuating these conspiracy theories. No one would be deleted for criticising government. If they were we'd have no threads. I don't know your previous username but posts would have been deleted for targeting other posters, being goady and abusive.

Absolutely agree @TheWoleb.

Tele12345 · 27/08/2021 11:17

Again, forces on the ground said:

'He is asking us, the Americans and the Taliban for safe passage but I am afraid safe passage is also other words for being brought to the front of the queue.

'And I just wonder how you feel about having to make a decision whereby we move lots of desperate Afghans out of the way to bring him through because of the profile and the support he has. That doesn't feel like the right thing to do. It gives me no pleasure to say that though".

This is why they didn't let him in sooner. He was pushing others out the way to get to the front, no matter how noble his cause, the reality is that is what he was asking for, even if he didn't intend to. There is

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:18

And many people are trying to highlight their cases too, not just Pens. People have picked it up due to animals being involved. When it’s just people who have a different skin colour, many aren’t interested unfortunately. Pen knew that and I believe he has used the animals to help his Afghan staff try to escape. Shame on the British public and press for not caring about the Afghan people.

Tele12345 · 27/08/2021 11:18

I hugely dislike the Torys, but support our armed forces on the ground and listen to what they say. There is no point ignoring the fact that his staff were granted places on a military plane but they waited until they could evacuate the animals too, and this decision to delay was the problem.

fuzzymoomin · 27/08/2021 11:19

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

I have a question. If the luggage hold is safe for animals - why can’t we fit more people in there as part of an emergency evacuation?
It's not set up for humans, no seats, no seat belts, people would fly all over the place with turbulence. It's loud, weird noises, cold. The animals are in crates that can be packed in.
IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:19

No one would be deleted for criticising government. If they were we'd have no threads. I don't know your previous username but posts would have been deleted for targeting other posters, being goady and abusive.

I can assure you I was. I have requested a reason from mumsnet but so far nothing.

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:21

I have to work now but will read the thread later.

SueSaid · 27/08/2021 11:23

'People have picked it up due to animals being involved. When it’s just people who have a different skin colour, many aren’t interested unfortunately.'

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/james-heappey-raf-boris-johnson-afghanistan-joe-biden-b952431.html

12,000 evacuated. People are interested.

It has been picked up on because of his high profile social media links and the fact he is an ex marine.

NinaGonk · 27/08/2021 11:23

The whole thing is embarrassing. People wringing their hands over dogs and cats while Afghan children lie on gravel outside the airport.

I dont care if the pets were in the hold or first class. You cant spend time loading on crates of dogs while broken families look on behind barbed wire. People should get some perspective.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 27/08/2021 11:25

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

I have a question. If the luggage hold is safe for animals - why can’t we fit more people in there as part of an emergency evacuation?
There is also the weight of the aircraft to consider. You can't just load every crook and cranny up with people (or anything else that would compromise the safety of the aircraft with excess weight).
PicsInRed · 27/08/2021 11:27

Ben, stop posting on mumsnet and get back to work.

Surely you have some pressing matters today.

Yakin · 27/08/2021 11:33

I think he's done as good a job as can be done in the very difficult circumstances he got.

I think pen was spot on with trying to get his staff out and the work he has done over the years, but wrong with the animal airlift, the time it would take away from the soldiers is inappropriate considering the humanitarian crisis.

Bythemillpond · 27/08/2021 11:38

I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved

How the plane was a charter that would have taken those queuing as well. The price was saving 200 animals and the staff at the sanctuary.
What do you think will happen now if people are so concerned about saving human lives
What do you think will happen to Pen Farthing who fought against the Taliban, the female vets who have carried on working and the staff at the sanctuary who are caring for dogs who are considered haram

TheWoleb · 27/08/2021 11:42

@Bythemillpond

Once again. His plane was not an extra plane. It was a smaller plane which would take the landing, tarmac and take off slot from a larger military plane which could evacuate 3 times as many people.

Bythemillpond · 27/08/2021 11:49

But how many planes are taking off.

I doubt it is like Heathrow where the planes are leaving and arriving every minute of the day

KeflavikAirport · 27/08/2021 11:50

This whole thing has taken up ministerial time and attention that could have been better spent elsewhere, for instance focusing on the twenty thousand or so Afghan interpreters in need of help. In a crisis, scarce resources of time and attention should go where they can save the greatest number. I am no Tory but I imagine the defence minister is better placed to make that judgement call than anyone on Mumsnet.

PicsInRed · 27/08/2021 11:59

[quote TheWoleb]@Bythemillpond

Once again. His plane was not an extra plane. It was a smaller plane which would take the landing, tarmac and take off slot from a larger military plane which could evacuate 3 times as many people.[/quote]
Those planes were going half full or worse - his wife's evacuation flight turned out to be almost completely empty of people. Meanwhile, Farthing's plane was going full to the brim of his own people plus 100 random evacuees from the airport.

The animals were to be crated cargo in a hold which is not and would not be approved for the transport of people. The animals weren't a side show, they were what underscored the status of the women in the group as Vets and this combined with the very high profile nature of the group increased the chance they could blag their way through the city.

All they needed was paperwork from Gov UK.

Anyway, it's all moot now as the UK government minister's petulance and passive aggressive farting about means none of those families will get out and at bare minimum many of the adults will be brutally murdered. The kids won't do much better, especially the girls approximately 12 years old who will be "married" off, and the ex service animals - especially if ISIS get hold of them - will almost certainly be used for the very public destruction of services morale.👍👏

snowballer · 27/08/2021 12:01

@Tele12345

Again, forces on the ground said:

'He is asking us, the Americans and the Taliban for safe passage but I am afraid safe passage is also other words for being brought to the front of the queue.

'And I just wonder how you feel about having to make a decision whereby we move lots of desperate Afghans out of the way to bring him through because of the profile and the support he has. That doesn't feel like the right thing to do. It gives me no pleasure to say that though".

This is why they didn't let him in sooner. He was pushing others out the way to get to the front, no matter how noble his cause, the reality is that is what he was asking for, even if he didn't intend to. There is

This wasn't forces on the ground saying this, it was the Armed Forces minister which is a totally different thing
TheWoleb · 27/08/2021 12:01

@PicsInRed

His wife's plane was a Norwegian flight. Go and speak about the Norwegian government for that cock up.

Pen mislead people when he tweeted about that in between discussing the Britiwh evacuation strategy.

That wasnt part of the British evacuation, nor did it take up British slots on the tarmac

Bythemillpond · 27/08/2021 12:05

This is why they didn't let him in sooner. He was pushing others out the way to get to the front, no matter how noble his cause, the reality is that is what he was asking for, even if he didn't intend to. There is

But he wasn’t pushing in front to take a place on the planes that would have gone to those in the queue
He was asking to be let in to get his own plane and take some of those waiting on the queue as well.

Even if he had only taken 10 people from the front of the queue that is 10 people who will not get out at the back

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 27/08/2021 12:07

This thing is bigger than Tories vs. Everyone Else. Bigger than Ben W vs. Pen F.

The writing has been on the wall for Afghanistan since last year, and the US's withdrawal from Bagram has accelerated the end of the mission.

It's likely we'll leave behind thousands of people who are entitled to be on flights out. What they will suffer under the Taliban is chilling.

There are no winners.

Jennylinda79 · 27/08/2021 12:09

It was not at the expense of others because it was paid for by supporters, not rich backers. He was trying to save his staff and others, as well as the animals who would only go in the hold. His staff cannot get out because they are Afghans and need special clearance now because of the delay and changes made by USA to clearance papers two hours before they were due to be processed.The animals would not be taking anyone else's space. Stopping his charity from leaving is not going to help anyone else leave because he was not taking up anyone else's flight. He didn't demand anything from anyone. How is it OK to fly out a car and send back empty planes but not help to rescue animals that will now probably have to be put down and his staff who will now have to flee somehow.

Bythemillpond · 27/08/2021 12:09

I am wondering why they don’t let people in. Obviously going through security to prevent guns, knives and suicide bombers in and get people on planes and sort out paperwork or whether they are Taliban imposters when they land and take them back on the next flight.

PicsInRed · 27/08/2021 12:10

[quote TheWoleb]@PicsInRed

His wife's plane was a Norwegian flight. Go and speak about the Norwegian government for that cock up.

Pen mislead people when he tweeted about that in between discussing the Britiwh evacuation strategy.

That wasnt part of the British evacuation, nor did it take up British slots on the tarmac[/quote]
Fair enough.

The UK... took a car.

Yes yes, highly super secret car, it could have been destroyed with other assets. We took a car.