To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

[Needapoodle]

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

@IAmSuperman

Yes, of course he has. But he has been repeatedly told that his plan was no extra. It was a smaller plan taking the place of a large plane and leading to fewer people being evacuation.
Pen just didnt. Like when he led people to believe that his wife's empty plane was something to do with the British government.

*Pen just didnt care.

'MPs and The MOD are experts in time wasting. They could have ignored it all. '

It has been all over the news and social media! The awful Dominic Dyer throwing serious allegations about, of course they couldn't ignore it. If nothing else it would have distressing for Farthing and his staff to hear such mistruths. There had been a sm campaign to get this white westerner out with his animals and sadly he should have realised in the volatile situation he was taking too great a risk and just got his staff to airport earlier this week when they did have clearance.

Yes, of course he has. But he has been repeatedly told that his plan was no extra. It was a smaller plan taking the place of a large plane and leading to fewer people being evacuation.
Pen just didnt. Like when he led people to believe that his wife's empty plane was something to do with the British government.

I’ve seen nothing official to say his plane wasn’t an extra. Just people on here and other social media saying it was taking up another planes slot.
He made it clear in an interview (Facebook live I think) that the plane carrying his wife was going to Norway. His wife has talked about landing in Norway in interviews.

'This is key. Pen did his part in getting to the airport. Wallace didn’t.'

The volatile situation predictably got worse. There was a terrorist threat and attack. They couldn't get in at that late stage.

It has been all over the news and social media! The awful Dominic Dyer throwing serious allegations about, of course they couldn't ignore it. If nothing else it would have distressing for Farthing and his staff to hear such mistruths. There had been a sm campaign to get this white westerner out with his animals and sadly he should have realised in the volatile situation he was taking too great a risk and just got his staff to airport earlier this week when they did have clearance.

They addressed it cos they were being shown up for their mistakes.

I have to go into a meeting again now but will check back later.

Such a lot of defence, policy and military experts and insiders here! Amazing you have time to facilitate the evacuation and chat on MN.

is the fact that Pen and his staff were safe within the confines of the airport and were pushed back out into the carnage of the aftermath of the bombing due to paperwork, where is the humanity?

I’m not at all sure that’s a “fact”…

Those commenting elsewhere on this claim who have first hand experience the airport geometry are saying it looks (from the contents and images in Mr Farthings own tweets) like he was actually stopped at the first of several Vehicle Check Points (VCPa) trying to negotiate onwards clearance when the first bomb went off, i.e. he was well outside the airport itself and never progressed further.

There is no way he was going to get any closer, especially with vehicles, once the first bomb went off.

Spurious claims like this,, or “inconsistencies” as they have been called, which I suspect don’t come from Mr Farthing himself, really don’t do his cause any good.

The volatile situation predictably got worse. There was a terrorist threat and attack. They couldn't get in at that late stage.

It was indeed predictable that the situation would deteriorate. So why the delay in approving their flight? That delay has potentially cost those staff members their lives.

Awful job. He was eye rolling in a TV interview about it. Vile man.

Awful job. He was eye rolling in a TV interview about it. Vile man.

I find it odd that you call him 'Ben'.

It’s being reported than Pen has now boarded a flight alone. His poor staff, we all need to pray for their safety. He will be devastated at leaving them to the Taliban.

@burritofan

Such a lot of defence, policy and military experts and insiders here! Amazing you have time to facilitate the evacuation and chat on MN.

I think you might be surprised..

I suspect there probably more here than you think, some possibly retired with time on their hands, who are quite happy to contribute since they do have real world knowledge of how both mil and civilian flying works, slots, cargo holds, what can go where, moving people, that sort of thing…

I certainly get the impression there are also those here who have served on the ground in that part of the world…….

Anyhow as far as the question raised by the thread title…as far as we can tell I think Mr Wallace is doing as good a job as can be expected in the very difficult circumstances.

Why should this one man and his particular cause take up so much time and attention

Because one man had single handedly organised and funded the correct documentation and transport out of Kabul for 25 skilled Afghan citizens and their dependents, a total of 68 people I think.

The animals are a red herring, the staff all voted to try and rescue as many as possible, they weren't taking up any human space, and they undoubtedly help raise their profile to make escape more likely. Do you really think that all the people who have managed to leave Kabul have been selected fairly from some government list? Have they fuck, thousands of people have been bumped up the queue,at the expense of other Afghan citizens, because of who they know. Yet it's only Pen getting attacked for trying his best to save the people he cares about.

On a separate note it's worth remembering that Ben Wallace was an utter cunt before all this and I'm delighted he's getting hounded now. Hopefully he is forced to resign and fucks off to whatever hole he lives in.

This is a man who consistently votes against promoting equality and human rights and improving conditions for the disabled (amongst other things). He also consistently votes for UK military intervention abroad.

In other words he's more than happy to send young men and women out to be maimed and killed but tries his fucking hardest to make sure that, should they be injured fighting a pointless fight, they'll get fuck all support when the get back. The man is a parasite of the highest order.

When Farthing and his team arrived, Wallace refused to let them in.

Do you have a link to that claim?

Ben Wallace hasnt helped himself by the way he's acted, nor by telling Pen to leave everyone he is responsible for and save himself.

When Farthing and his team arrived, Wallace refused to let them in

Any sources for either of these claims?

Firstly BW is not in charge of processing everyone leaving Kabul. PF would have been told as a British citizen he was entitled to leave on a plane over a week ago. He says (no other source for this but assume it is true) there were no papers for his staff and animals so he waited. Great, well done him (I certainly wouldn't have the bravery to wait), the papers came though a couple of days later and he travelled to the airport by which point there was further issues meaning he couldn't get in. We have no information on when he applied for his people to come to the UK or how long it took etc. There is no doubt that social media has been used to try and put pressure on the govt to get his people and animals to the UK ahead of other people (whether or not that was his intention, I suspect it wasn't but some of his cheerleaders like Dominic Dyer don't help his cause).

As for 'Wallace kept them out' BS if you really think BW is sitting in his office in Westminster and is able to stop people being let into the American run airport in Kabul then you seriously have no idea of how things are working over there.

I don't think people are blackening PF's name. I think the vast majority of people think he is a good person but some think he is misguided. I hope him and his people get out.
However, the people I do judge are the idiots tweeting the PM and BW and telling them they have blood on their hands because this man and his animals did not get out and insinuating that it has been done deliberately.
Frankly every western leader ever involved in Afghanistan has blood on their hands (no one more than Biden), mostly that of Afghan people especially women and children.

I think he has probably done the best job in the circumstances. Since the Taliban controlled- or failed to control- the area outside the airport, the US and UK military did the best they could do with one hand tied behind their backs. With the desperate crush of people if they'd opened gates they would have probably needed riot shields, water cannons, tear gas and maybe rubber bullets and baton charges- against a crowd containing children - to stop a "pitch invasion" of the runway grounding all the planes, as happened on the civilian side at the start. Except this time the pitch invasion could have contained suicide bombers on foot and vehicles packed with explosives.

Ben Wallace made some reference to "picking a few people out of the crowd"... I wonder if these include whoever was doing undercover work / surveillance that led to the warning of the ISIS-K bombs before they happened. If so I really hope they get out safely and get paid a whacking great bonus. Can you imagine doing that job.

Also the job of the embassy staff trying to save as many as possible. If I was an Afghan national trying to get out I'd probably be crying claiming all sorts, I'd say I was an interpreter, I'd pretend my teenage sons were younger and my preteen daughters older and at risk of getting married off, I'd pretend to be Hazara, I'd pretend any damn thing to try to save my family. Meanwhile some of the real interpreters and ex military base staff probably had to burn any documentation confirming this before they ran the gauntlet of Taliban checkpoints on their way through the city. Can you imagine trying to sort that lot out with everyone desperate to make their case, and wondering every time you stamp a paper and wave somebody on whether you are actually waving on a terrorist with a great cover story, and let the next 9/11 architect into the UK, and wondering every time you shake your head are you throwing a genuine case on the Taliban hitlist back into the wolf's mouth.

*On a separate note it's worth remembering that Ben Wallace was an utter cunt before all this and I'm delighted he's getting hounded now. Hopefully he is forced to resign and fucks off to whatever hole he lives in.

This is a man who consistently votes against promoting equality and human rights and improving conditions for the disabled (amongst other things). He also consistently votes for UK military intervention abroad.

In other words he's more than happy to send young men and women out to be maimed and killed but tries his fucking hardest to make sure that, should they be injured fighting a pointless fight, they'll get fuck all support when the get back. The man is a parasite of the highest order.*

Any source for any of this?

As for Pen Farthing, I think he just tried to play the hand he had as best he could.

@IAmSuperman

Wallace told him if he could get himself, his staff and animals to the airport, he'd facilitate their safe passage. When Farthing and his team arrived, Wallace refused to let them in. Left them out there for hours.

This is key. Pen did his part in getting to the airport. Wallace didn’t.

It wasn't up to Wallace by then. Biden had ordered the forces in control of the airport not to process Afghans, regardless of where their destination was.

I'm as far from a Tory as you can be but in this instance Wallace was powerless.
need a wash now

@Doodlebug71

Fully agree with everything you have said. Absolute fiasco as usual.

It wasn't up to Wallace by then. Biden had ordered the forces in control of the airport not to process Afghans, regardless of where their destination was.

I’m talking about the hours and hours before this that they were waiting. Biden hadn’t changed the rules yet, Pen was outside the airport but not allowed through.

focusing attention on 'Operation Ark' because a white western man wants to get animals out.

Oh, I don't know, if you scratch the surface of a lot of the "concerns" around Farthings attempts, you'll find there is actually a lot of resistance to refugees, human refugees. All those Afghan people, including women and children, Farthing was trying to get out.

They say "people over animals", but scratch the surface and they'll start to talk about Farthing having the chance to leave by himself. That's what they really wanted to happen.

Scratch just a little and there it is.

They say "people over animals", but scratch the surface and they'll start to talk about Farthing having the chance to leave by himself. That's what they really wanted to happen.

Absolutely.