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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

730 replies

Needapoodle · 27/08/2021 08:41

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

OP posts:
TheFairyCaravan · 27/08/2021 10:48

I really dislike the Tories, I’d rather walk over hot coals than vote for them, however I think Ben Wallace’s heart is in the right place. . His job is not to get Pen Farthing and his animals out. It’s bloody ridiculous how that story has hijacked the whole rescue mission from Afghanistan.

oneglassandpuzzled · 27/08/2021 10:49

I have a lot of sympathy for Pen Farthing.

On the other hand, Ben Wallace did seem to be one of the few ministers taking this seriously from the start and actually caring about the outcome.

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 10:49

His plane could be taking up a space for a bigger plane to evacuate more people though. The time processing the animals is time wasted processing more people through!

There have been lots of smaller civilian planes from various nations. People don’t have an issue with those ones though.

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 27/08/2021 10:50

I have a question. If the luggage hold is safe for animals - why can’t we fit more people in there as part of an emergency evacuation?

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 10:51

I think a few people have fell for his crocodile tears and pretend voice breaking last week. I don’t believe he has any compassion.

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 10:52

I have a question. If the luggage hold is safe for animals - why can’t we fit more people in there as part of an emergency evacuation?

They’re just not allowed, safety laws don’t allow it unfortunately.

StarfishDish · 27/08/2021 10:52

@IAmSuperman

His plane could be taking up a space for a bigger plane to evacuate more people though. The time processing the animals is time wasted processing more people through!

There have been lots of smaller civilian planes from various nations. People don’t have an issue with those ones though.

People have an issue with the time processing animals preventing humans getting processed though!
sashagabadon · 27/08/2021 10:53

I agree that Pen has misjudged. He assumed having a bit of a profile and ex forces meant he could force the governments hand and it’s backfired.
I don’t know much about it all but He was apparently offered a seat on a flight last week. I think it’s admirable that he chose to stay with his team but I don’t think for one minute he actually imagined the speed of events and that he would get stuck there. I hope he does find a way out or is given permission to stay in Kabul and continue doing what he is doing.

snowballer · 27/08/2021 10:53

Like it or not, the difficulty is Pen misjudged the dangerousness of the situation, thinking he could demand to be airlifted first at the expense of others because he is English and has rich backers.

He didn't think or say any of this. The difficulty is when people attribute their own views to the facts and distort what actually appears to have happened.

He is only one of many thousands of people trying to flee. I hope he gets out today, but i fear he should have got his staff out sooner, rather than wait for the animal permits.

He wasn't waiting for animal permits (?!) he was waiting for paperwork for his - human - staff. Again, substituting what you want to happen for what actually happened isn't helpful.

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 10:55

People have an issue with the time processing animals preventing humans getting processed though!

That’s up to them. I highly doubt it takes much time to process an animal compares to a human but none of us know. Disagreeing is fine, trying to ruin Pens whole mission and his name when he’s a good person isn’t.

TheWoleb · 27/08/2021 10:56

His staff all qualified for evacuation. They were allowed space on an evacuation flight.
They wanted instead to take their own plan with the animal. Their plane, which could only take a few hundred people, would be on the tarmac for longer than a military evacuation flight due to the loading of the animals. It could only carry a couple hundred people. In order to land his plane, and allow the loading of the animals, they would need to give up slots for military evacuation flights which could hold 400 hunted people (and some more) and turn around time was 30 minutes.

His plane wasnt an extra plane. It was a smaller plane which would take longer to load and would cause more than one military evacuation plane to give up it's slot.

His staff qualified for evacuation. They would have been on a military flight had they gone to the airport at the start, when called forward. They chose not to. They chose to demand a smaller, private plane and waste time loading the animals.

When they were given clearance for a smaller plane, the went to the U.S gate instead of the British one.

Now they might not get out. Pen needs to take responsibility for that.

StarfishDish · 27/08/2021 10:56

@IAmSuperman

People have an issue with the time processing animals preventing humans getting processed though!

That’s up to them. I highly doubt it takes much time to process an animal compares to a human but none of us know. Disagreeing is fine, trying to ruin Pens whole mission and his name when he’s a good person isn’t.

@IAmSuperman It doesn't matter how much time it takes. The point is that it's still taking vital time away from humans getting processed!
IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 10:58

TheWoleb

There’s a lot of untruths in your post.

TheWoleb · 27/08/2021 10:59

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

Animals sometimes die in the hold. Pets have died whilst travelling in the hold on commercial flights when their owners have taken them abroad.

We accept the risk of animals dieing in the hold. No one is going to open the hole to humans and say "you might survive, you might not, tell your family not to sue us."

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:00

It doesn't matter how much time it takes. The point is that it's still taking vital time away from humans getting processed!

I’m more concerned with the time wasted by ministers in this whole process. Lots more time than processing some animals. And of course the time wasted by not starting evacuation earlier. But yes, let’s blame Pen.

TheWoleb · 27/08/2021 11:01

@IAmSuperman

If other nations choose to use their take off, landing and tarmac slots on small private planes then that is their choice. The british evacuation plan was to use large planes not tiny private planes for a couple hundred people.

StarfishDish · 27/08/2021 11:02

@IAmSuperman

It doesn't matter how much time it takes. The point is that it's still taking vital time away from humans getting processed!

I’m more concerned with the time wasted by ministers in this whole process. Lots more time than processing some animals. And of course the time wasted by not starting evacuation earlier. But yes, let’s blame Pen.

@IAmSuperman I'm more concerned by the many people tweeting and essentially saying that Pen should be able to push to the front of the queue with his staff snd animals!
Lockheart · 27/08/2021 11:02

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

I have a question. If the luggage hold is safe for animals - why can’t we fit more people in there as part of an emergency evacuation?
Because there are no seats or restraints for humans in holds and no pilot worth their salt would take off with people in the hold of the plane. It's not safe.
IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:03

TheWoleb

I got deleted yesterday for answering a similar post to yours. I don’t know why, I wasn’t rude, no swearing or attacks so I’m reluctant to answer. There are untruths in your posts as I’m sure you know.

fuzzymoomin · 27/08/2021 11:04

As defence secretary Ben Wallace should be ready and prepared to act on and manage a rapidly changing and volatile situation. Personally I think the UK government could have done more sooner, but even if Ben W had done an amazing job people would call for his resignation. That's always the way with ministers vs armchair judges.
Pen Farthing is becoming the victim of a weird negative media campaign. His animals have not caused any delay. He refused to leave before he had a guarantee that his staff could also receive safe passage - that's admirable - and since he commissioned a private plane he also provided additional space for more refugees. The animals are being transported in the luggage hold where people cannot travel. He didn't make an error in going to the American gate at the airport as a previous post says, the entire airport was previously (pre-Taliban) controlled by the US military, the British entrance was closed because of the terror threat. Pen's travel permit was authorised by the UK but then refused on-site by the US.
People are so quick to throw opinions around situations like this. Unless you've worked in a humanitarian role in a dangerous or unstable country, or worked as defence secretary, hold off judging.

ANameChangeAgain · 27/08/2021 11:05

I think they are all in an impossible situation, defence minister included. There will be a lot of our soldiers and decision makers with PTSD after this.
I don't think it was a case of animals taking up seats, I think it was a case of sheer volume of people to process, and unfortunately Pen and his trucks were caught up in the chaos. People need to remember its the Taliban that are to blame for this, not the people desperately trying to save people from the Taliban.

IAmSuperman · 27/08/2021 11:06

I'm more concerned by the many people tweeting and essentially saying that Pen should be able to push to the front of the queue with his staff snd animals!

Again, no queue pushing. It just isn’t true. But when I answered yesterday I got deleted. He was eligible as were his staff. Patel actually apologised that it took longer than it should have to get their paperwork. It’s a case of a few posters saying this stuff and others jumping on. Not even sure I’m allowed to say that.

HeddaGarbled · 27/08/2021 11:08

Interesting that you think only Tories are pro-Wallace/anti-Pen, because I have a completely reverse opinion of the sort of people who get more emotional about rescue animals than Afghan civilians.

PenguinIce · 27/08/2021 11:09

@TheFairyCaravan

I really dislike the Tories, I’d rather walk over hot coals than vote for them, however I think Ben Wallace’s heart is in the right place. . His job is not to get Pen Farthing and his animals out. It’s bloody ridiculous how that story has hijacked the whole rescue mission from Afghanistan.
Completely agree with this!

I am sure there are countless others with just as heartbreaking story as Pen Farthing. Just because he has a Twitter account does not make him more deserving.

KeflavikAirport · 27/08/2021 11:11

@HeddaGarbled yep, I am about as far from being a Tory as you can get.

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