To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

[Needapoodle]

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

I bet if you read Twitter in Pashtun rather than English you get a different picture.

First anger about his wife's empty plan (yes sometimes planes are not full as insufficient people processed, no shortage of planes, every 45 mins

Why not having made sure no one was carrying weapons etc did they get people on a plane and out of the country and then process paperwork when they land

Any who shouldn’t have been there put on a flight back.

@Bythemillpond

First anger about his wife's empty plan (yes sometimes planes are not full as insufficient people processed, no shortage of planes, every 45 mins

Why not having made sure no one was carrying weapons etc did they get people on a plane and out of the country and then process paperwork when they land

Any who shouldn’t have been there put on a flight back.

Because flying out people on no fly lists is a security risk. Even if you could, you cannot then fly them back to a dangerous country.

@StarfishDish

I agree. The issue wasn't the space for the animals, it was the time taken to process the animals that could have been used to process people instead.

Yes It was a selfish distraction. I hope we never hear of him ever again.

Just heard a pretty outrageous voice message from Pen to mod official on Times radio full of threats Of destroying this mod individual on social media, ffing this, ffing that. Commands to do this and that. Disgraceful. I’m disgusted and never want to hear from this guy again. He should be utterly ashamed but bet he won’t be.

That leaked phone message he left threatening and swearing and saying he was going ton’destroy’ the MOD guy was disgraceful -
And unfortunately we’ve not heard the last of him. He’ll be all over the media with his pets as soon as his back here.

@Bythemillpond

First anger about his wife's empty plan (yes sometimes planes are not full as insufficient people processed, no shortage of planes, every 45 mins

Why not having made sure no one was carrying weapons etc did they get people on a plane and out of the country and then process paperwork when they land

Any who shouldn’t have been there put on a flight back.

Is this a serious comment?

Why did the animals need to be processed, apart from checking the cages didn’t hold something they shouldn’t have?
Can’t imagine an animal being on the no fly list.
This all could have been handled so much quicker and so much better and I can understand his frustration of the red tape and then because they weren’t all allowed to leave when they should have done it will probably cost some of the vets and workforce at the charity their lives.

If someone is on the no fly list then returning them to Afghanistan wouldn’t be a problem as they shouldn’t have been on the flight in the first place.
How many more people could they have got out without the hold up of checking paperwork before flying
Interested to know why NZ pulled out so soon and only seemed to have taken their own people then closed their evacuation of the people who had helped them. Something seems really off.

I hope most media outlets ignore him and whatever he has to say, unless it’s a heartfelt thanks to the mod and full no reservation apology for his antics over the last week.
Or if they do indulge him play him that voice message.

Potatwoah

The whole point was to get as many people out. Paperwork could have been sorted without the time pressure.

Yep NZ pretty crap response. Seems to have left their interpreters behind completely apart from a tiny number that got out on an Aus plane.

There are a lot of considerations when evacuating people, you can't just send them back .

If someone is on the no fly list then returning them to Afghanistan wouldn’t be a problem as they shouldn’t have been on the flight in the first place.

There will certainly be some people, possibly a very small number, who are on “no fly lists” who you don’t want anywhere near an aircraft, ever.

As for deporting them post arrival. I’m sure a competent lawyer could certainly make it a problem.

That threatening voice message is disgraceful. No-one should be expected to tolerate that in the workplace.

As for his rantings.

There were lives at stake that he felt responsible for and bureaucracy seemed to get in the way.

Given my rantings when I have to do peoples jobs for them or what should be a simple task that companies/doctors/admin etc have failed to do or have done wrong or have made overly complicated, given what was at stake was quite tame.

I really don't know. The whole thing has just been such a horrendous and avoidable tragedy. Biden's legacy.

@Bythemillpond

As for his rantings.

There were lives at stake that he felt responsible for and bureaucracy seemed to get in the way.

Given my rantings when I have to do peoples jobs for them or what should be a simple task that companies/doctors/admin etc have failed to do or have done wrong or have made overly complicated, given what was at stake was quite tame.

I have had a lot worse ranting for situations where lives were not at stake!

If he hadn’t used the f word it’ll have been seen as an assertive message but the swearing is what people are focusing on.

Personally I think he was justified. Calling out who has blocked his flight with a threat of naming and shaming.

@Bythemillpond

Potatwoah

The whole point was to get as many people out. Paperwork could have been sorted without the time pressure.

No paper work was needed. Anyone could have been getting on those planes.

The way I see it, he wasn’t ‘blocked’ he just was not given preferential treatment.

My reason for thinking this is as follows:

There were thousands queueing for days at the gates. They would be let in in batches, processed, and then put immediately onto a military flight. The flights were coming in and out on a rapid 45min turnaround. They would land, be loaded with whoever and however many had been processed at that point, and leave. There was no room for waiting for people or delay. Rapid 45min in and out.

Then you have Pen, and his private plane. His plane would have to land and wait for him - potentially disruptive for the military planes doing their 45min turnarounds but that’s not the main issue for me.

For me the main issue is that Pen was demanding to be able to walk past all the queueing people (who may well have no clue who he was, no understanding that he wasn’t going to be taking ‘their seats’, and who were equally desperate for their lives), walk straight in at the front of the queue with three trucks of dogs and cats. (Potential for riots and unrest at this point anyone?)

Then he would have required processing, staff and animals. So staff processing the other days long queue would have to stop that, in order to process Pens people. Remember, the military planes aren’t waiting for people, they take whoever is ready at the time. Delays in processing mean you may well miss the flight, and the closer to the last day, the higher the chance that would be your ONLY flight.

And then you have to slot in his plane’s takeoff.

That’s how I see it. Now you can argue all you like about lack of gov organisation etc. But the reality is what it is at the time and people on the ground have to work with that they have not what they wish or should have had in ideal circumstances.

Pen was demanding to have his group prioritised, in a country in the midst of destroying itself, where there was real threat to the lives of many, not just him and his staff.

And I’m sorry, but in circumstances such as those, you should not get to buy your way to the front of the queue to get on your private plane when doing so will delay others without those means from being processed for their own escape.

Well said @Rinoachicken, it is the inconvenient truth. Now he is back with his tail between his legs and Dominic Dyer is trying to spin it as mudslinging, poor ex marine Pen thwarted by evil Ben wallace and Farthing is a 'hero'. It's all bollocks, he delayed evacuating waiting for his private jet (that rightly wasn't prioritised over military flights) for his strays and has put his staff's lives at risk.The recording needed sharing to prove what the MOD were dealing with.

Imagine if all the 15000 evacuees had been demanding call signs on twitter egged on by stupid privileged celebrities. The whole thing was shameful.

The truth will come out. The Torys will be shown up for the petty and incompetent fools that they are. That day can’t come soon enough.

It will not help the poor people in Afghanistan though, left there because our government acted too late.

@IAmSuperman now that I can agree with 100%

And the public aren’t stupid. They can see how the Torys are now trying to spin this, even the Tory voters I know are not buying it.

The way I see it, he wasn’t ‘blocked’ he just was not given preferential treatment.

You’re not alone in that POV, outside this place and some dedicated Facebook pages it’s a widely held belief.

I’m not really interested in the noise from either side now though. In time there should be an inquiry into this whole mess. Lessons need to be learnt, anyone acting wrongly should be held accountable. In time. But til then the government should be fully focused on helping those left behind and those who made it here.