To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

[Needapoodle]

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

'Yeah - people should be more polite when they have the lives of other people in their hands, and the Taliban are next door. Like Ben Wallace. Oh hang on, he couldn't even manage not to swear in an interview while sitting in his safe office.'

Ben Wallace was overusing the evacuation of 14000 desperate people, so yes I'm not surprised he said bollocks to the false allegations made by Farthings rabid supporters.

Overseeing*

You got what you wanted, the animals will be fine, what else did you want to win?

I would obviously have liked the people and animals out. Who wouldn’t?

He is threatening to destroy someone on national tv, abhorrent.

But if he Wallace had behaved properly, not blocked his staff, Pen wouldn’t be able to show Wallace up for what he did. Wallace surely couldn’t have expected Pen to keep quiet when the life of him and staff and animals were on the line. Boris quite rightly put Wallace in his place.

It's not swooning worship on my part. I just wish people would see how this plays so perfectly into the hands of the government. The longer that the outrage over pets stays in the headlines, the longer they can deflect the real responsibility for people being left to die away from them. It's such basic spin, and you're all falling hook line and sinker for it.

Or the other way around, falling hook line and sinker that he is faultless and amazing. I would suspect a lot of people not overly bowled over by him are also critical of the government, not overly sure how its being assumed people are one or the other.

Yes, like the Afghan who said why is my 5 year old child worth less to you than a dog? That’s what the world sees, outside of lunatic animal lovers. Well done ‘Pen’.

Meanwhile with popularity contest votes still coming in …

Just a reminder that as mentioned upthread the UK side of this operation wrapped up tonight without a single UK fatality.
Given what was involved and the threat level that is remarkable, not far short of a miracle IMVHO and that is all down to the bravery and hard work of those on the ground and the hours put in by people at MOD..they certainly all have my thanks…

It would be quite nice to think that as a result of all this more people actually take an interest in what is going on in the world, maybe get the Atlas or Google maps out every now again to find out where that place that just got a mention on the news really is, but maybe I’m being naive….

@Theluggage15

Yes, like the Afghan who said why is my 5 year old child worth less to you than a dog? That’s what the world sees, outside of lunatic animal lovers. Well done ‘Pen’.

Not Pen's fault though, is it?

Anyway, this is literally Groundhog Day. It got deleted last night and it’s going the same way. I’d like to keep my account.

I’m glad there are so many supporters of Pen and that the vast majority of people can see what’s going on.

Night.

The longer that the outrage over pets stays in the headlines, the longer they can deflect the real responsibility for people being left to die away from them. It's such basic spin, and you're all falling hook line and sinker for it.

Oh well done you aren't you so clever to work out what us mere mortals couldn't.
The government didn't force PF and his supporters to act they way they did and be abusive and wasting people's time.
There are plenty of headlines about things that have gone wrong but it is also worth noting that the advice from the British government for months has been for British citizens to leave Afghanistan so perhaps if so many (including PF) has left then, there wouldn't have been so many people to get out in the last week.

@DogsAreImpawtant

He is threatening to destroy someone on national tv, abhorrent.

But if he Wallace had behaved properly, not blocked his staff, Pen wouldn’t be able to show Wallace up for what he did. Wallace surely couldn’t have expected Pen to keep quiet when the life of him and staff and animals were on the line. Boris quite rightly put Wallace in his place.

He didn't block his staff, he just didn't catapult them to the front for processing, surely people would be outraged if this was being done for other people? Boris did what he did as he aims to be a people pleaser, so instead of sticking by his staff who were following what was a tough protocol, he bowed to public pressure applied from people on social media.

@DogsAreImpawtant

Anyway, this is literally Groundhog Day. It got deleted last night and it’s going the same way. I’d like to keep my account.

I’m glad there are so many supporters of Pen and that the vast majority of people can see what’s going on.

Night.

You want to keep this account?

Not sure what to think of Pen Farthing except that I would hate to be in his position, and the fact that animals were rescued but people remained is soul crushing. Then again, Germans loaded their plane with 65,000 beer cans and many others left with hardly anyone on board, so flying out one man with 200 cats and dogs is not the worst thing that happened in this evacuation crisis. This whole chaos just underlines what a joke NATO is and Europe in general (including the UK) unable to deal with the mess without being led and propped by the US, who instigated it in the first place.

I do know that many of the loudest voices in the media and politics now pontificating about the disgrace of his animals being rescued ahead of humans are the same ones who only a month ago advocated or condoned some inhumane ways of dealing with the refugee crisis.

"People will lose their lives because our government didn’t act quickly enough and cos Biden messed up this whole situation, not because of a charity worker."

They got 15,000 people out in 14 days - and thousands before that, at a calmer pace of course.

Nobody predicted that Kabul would fall as quickly as it did. That's why we are rescuing uk nationals who went out for family events.

Of course they will have made mistakes, but to be forced to defend themselves time and again against the baseless criticism levelled against them at this time is awful.

First anger about his wife's empty plan (yes sometimes planes are not full as insufficient people processed, no shortage of planes, every 45 mins), then the car (yes sometimes we stow freight if not enough people), then blocking his flight (no just not able to take a slot at present), then why has MoD stopped taking his calls (turns out a response to his abusive phone calls), then why was he turned away (change of rules instigated by Taliban). Now it's a smear campaign to deflect from gov failings apparently. How many hours have been spent on this, and not on, say, supporting any of the 1000 other people eligible to leave?

I still believe he's a good man but his actions are misguided and impossible to justify. I've no idea why his supporters are so fanatical and can't admit that really.

Oh well done you aren't you so clever to work out what us mere mortals couldn't.

Thanks

@Lockheart

Unless any of us are on the ground in Kabul or directing military operations or are working in the MOD or are privy to govt information, I'm not sure any of us are qualified to say whether what he's done is good or bad in the circumstances.

I am personally a huge fan of Pen Farthing.

Agree

@LINABE I am qualified (in that I have ears) to listen to his abusive message to people he wanted to help him and can make judgments based on that.

Nobody predicted that Kabul would fall as quickly as it did.

Funny how intelligence works in this mess. Nobody predicted this rather predictable situation but they were able to predict almost down to the hour that ISIS will strike the airport. It couldn't be stopped. Yet a day later they were able to locate and take out some very important ISIS people.

Nobody predicted that Kabul would fall as quickly as it did.

Reportly the CIA did predict it, but weren't listened to.

www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/cia-warned-rapid-afghanistan-collapse-so-why-did-u-s-n1277026

I feel sorry for Pen's staff left behind. Not so much him.

Ben Wallace did a good job in the circumstances

And apparently lots of senior people in military did try to give warning, US and UK and they were ignored. It will all come out in the end, it’s not as easy as it once was to cover things up. The government will be shitting it. Good. People have lost and will continue to lose their lives in Afghanistan. They will be tortured and raped. Women and girls will not be valued. So I don’t care if governments have to face up to their failures.

Picsinred,

That's actually a really interesting article, thank you.

I don't think it quite says what you think it does, though.

CIA modelled several different scenarios which included a 'worst case scenario' of a rapid unravelling, but their statement says they still didn't anticipate it happening in 11 days.

I suppose it's easy for us all to say it was obvious, with hindsight. No doubt a public inquiry will be needed to get to the details.

All efforts now need to be on positively influencing the Taliban and continuing to evacuate through other channels.

fourminutestosavetheworld

Yes, however the article continues

A senior intelligence official also said Wednesday that the Afghan government “unraveled even more quickly than we anticipated.”

But the official added: “We consistently identified the risk of a rapid collapse of the Afghan government. We also grew more pessimistic about the government’s survival as the fighting season progressed.”

CIA officials were taken aback by the rapid pace of the military’s pullout, including the dead-of-night withdrawal from Bagram Air Base in July, according to a former official.

So their initial assessment was based on a less "hasty" exit of US troops and even their intial assessment should have given cause for concern and certainly not the abrupt relinquishing of Bagram.

The news has now come out that hundreds of emails were left unread by foreign office staff, from MPs and charities about Afghan people in particular danger. Pen Farthing in a convenient distraction from the government’s incompetence. Making him a villain is outrage bait and obfuscates the complexity of the situation and makes it a binary ‘people or animals’ issue, gives the public something to rage about and argue over on twitter, and distracts everyone from who was really at fault.

Was he wrong for wanting to save his staff AND animals? No.

Should the government have caved into his demands and processed him and his animals before people? No.

Did PF have any power to overrule the taliban who blocked his staff from entering the airport? No.

Perhaps if FCO staff had read those emails and been less concerned about capitulating to a twitter mob, people could’ve been evacuated in some sort of order of priority, and more people could’ve been removed over the last few days. Ultimately though, some people were always going to end up left behind whether PF was there or not.

And also :

"Even under the grimmer contingencies the U.S. Embassy in Kabul had prepared for in the event of a rapid Taliban advance, the State Department anticipated it would have at least several months to continue operating safely in Kabul before the capital would fall, a senior official said. The official said the State Department had anticipated potentially needing security reinforcements but assumed they would still be operating in territory at least nominally controlled by the Afghan government, not the Taliban."

It's all moot now. Mistakes were made. Hindsight makes them easier to identify. The ensuing humanitarian crisis is heartbreaking.