Afghanistan

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More US troops killed today than over the last 4 years . Pulling put has cost more deaths of US troops than staying there.
Afghans now being slaughtered.
Massive fail from Biden following Trumps pull out.

Very, very 😔

In my opinion the only ones to blame for this fiasco are the two pricks that started it .George W Bush and Blair.Bush wanted to finish off his daddy's war and a family vendetta and get Saddam Hussein and so concocted the story of WMD .I was living in the US at the time of the invasion of Afganistan /Iraq .There was a media block out of the bodies of young service men coming back.such scenes were not allowed in the press .Meanwhile thousands of young soldiers died .I have two sons and was appalled one night when they did actually show on television the faces of the hundreds of dead service men or 'heroes' as they love to sugar coat it. One face younger than the other and all dead .For what ?
Meanwhile Bush's two daughters were swanning around Washington going to parties .If they had been any good they could have worked at the army hospitals and wiped the blood off the floor of the dead and maimed servicemen.
Bush and Blair belong in front of the Court of Human Rights Hague for crimes against humanity.

I think it might be useful for the govt. A lot of attention that could have been going to people like the translators has gone on Farthing and his animals. Now against all odds our heroic govt have got him out after all so we can't be too critical of them can we. Or can we?

@schnubbins

In my opinion the only ones to blame for this fiasco are the two pricks that started it .George W Bush and Blair.Bush wanted to finish off his daddy's war and a family vendetta and get Saddam Hussein and so concocted the story of WMD .I was living in the US at the time of the invasion of Afganistan /Iraq .There was a media block out of the bodies of young service men coming back.such scenes were not allowed in the press .Meanwhile thousands of young soldiers died .I have two sons and was appalled one night when they did actually show on television the faces of the hundreds of dead service men or 'heroes' as they love to sugar coat it. One face younger than the other and all dead .For what ? Meanwhile Bush's two daughters were swanning around Washington going to parties .If they had been any good they could have worked at the army hospitals and wiped the blood off the floor of the dead and maimed servicemen. Bush and Blair belong in front of the Court of Human Rights Hague for crimes against humanity.

Well I think the taliban and ISIS have also done their bit.

I think we should all reserve judgment on the Pen Farthing situation. A lot of government sources seem very angry that military effort was diverted from humans to animals. No one here knows if he is a good man or not, unless they know him personally.

What is clearly a tragedy, and a disgrace, is how many people were left behind.

It is indeed utterly tragic that so many have been left behind. I keep thinking about the dread and deep sorrow they must be feeling. I'm hoping diplomacy can be used to continue to get some out on commercial flights, and/or over land borders? But, I freely admit to not having a clue how these things work, or how much hope there is. But I have to cling to hope that more can be done, or I'd literally feel despair...

Why were Farthings staff more ‘deserving’ of evacuation than any other Afghans though? Surely working in animal rescue isn’t going to bump you to the top of any Taliban hit list? We also aren’t evacuating the millions of people literally being starved to death in North Korea, are we?

But anyway, he left them, as I knew from the start he would. You could see from the beginning what a thrill he was getting from the attention.

Who said they were more deserving? I have no idea how deserving they were of being rescued, but I totally understand why he would have been willing to do whatever it takes to get them out of Afghanistan.
If something happened that put my colleagues and students in danger, for example on a school trip abroad, my number one priority would be getting them to safety. Sat at home on my sofa I know that, rationally, my students and staff would be no more deserving of being rescued than any other teenagers. If we were in a dangerous situation, I’d pull every string and use every tactic I could to ensure that I got them home safe as quickly as possible. I’m not sure I really believe people who say they wouldn’t do the same.

Whatever the ins and outs of the Pen Farthing situation there's no excuse for bullying, threatening behaviour towards govt employees trying to do their jobs in very difficult circumstances.
Farthing is alleged to have left a threatening voicemail for Ben Wallace's advisor.
Daily Telegraph link

Yes, I don't think anyone's suggesting they were more deserving. But naturally he'd want to rescue those dear to him, as anyone would. Also their children, and all children are vulnerable there.. He also planned to fill the empty space with as many other innocent Afghans as possible.
Re leaving his staff. I think by that stage, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. If he'd stayed, people would no doubt be criticising him now for abandoning his wife, and being a martyr, and a security risk etc etc. He couldn't win.
They all must have been exhausted, and a decision had to be made quickly, once it was clear the Taliban wouldn't allow Afghans without British passports to travel. It must have been agonising. I don't know what went on, and feel I have no right to judge at all. I just think it's all very sad. For everyone left I mean. Not just the Nowzad team.

Re North Korea - of course that's terrible too. I don't know as much about it as I should. But of course we were evacuating from Afghanistan particularly because we were directly involved, and because it was so urgent. We especially had a duty to those who'd worked with the western allies. As they'd be in so much danger otherwise, as a direct result. We massively owed them.
But I say that, without remotely diminishing the very real hardship endured by many people constantly, in many parts of the world. It's all awful of course

@TeloMere of course. There's never any excuse for bullying or threatening behaviour of anyone in any circumstance...

@TeloMere

Whatever the ins and outs of the Pen Farthing situation there's no excuse for bullying, threatening behaviour towards govt employees trying to do their jobs in very difficult circumstances. Farthing is alleged to have left a threatening voicemail for Ben Wallace's advisor. Daily Telegraph link

That is shocking. There is no excuse for those sort of threats.

This bit is so sad Tom Tugendhat, chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, told LBC Radio: “The difficulty is getting people into and out of the airport. We've just used a lot of troops to get in 200 dogs, meanwhile my interpreter's family is likely to be killed.

@ancientgran

I was just going to post the exact same quote. I heard the interview on LBC, it was really sobering.

@TeloMere

Whatever the ins and outs of the Pen Farthing situation there's no excuse for bullying, threatening behaviour towards govt employees trying to do their jobs in very difficult circumstances. Farthing is alleged to have left a threatening voicemail for Ben Wallace's advisor. Daily Telegraph link

The smear campaign against Farthing just increases.

The tories have been running the show for over a decade now. They stop at *nothing to discredit people who challenge them.

Some time ago, there was a demo online to show that Obama's voice coudl be superimposed on his face to imply he was saying whatever a bot was saying.

Those who have been following Farthing, or at least aware of his work for some years, would question the sources used to discredit hi. Hr is a good man. Unlike those who seek to discredit him.

@ancientgran. Perhaps your precious Tory should cross the floor. He knows the party he's part of, and supports. Let his actions speak louder than his words.

[quote lannistunut]@ancientgran

I was just going to post the exact same quote. I heard the interview on LBC, it was really sobering.[/quote]
It must be awful for the men who served there and know these people and maybe their families. It is hard to comprehend.

[quote Doodlebug71]@ancientgran. Perhaps your precious Tory should cross the floor. He knows the party he's part of, and supports. Let his actions speak louder than his words.[/quote]
I'm not a Tory supporter, didn't vote for them, don't like Johnson, didn't want Brexit. Doesn't mean I can't understand that he has feeling for the man he worked closely with and his family and isn't happy they have been left to die.

I've had many rescue animals but the way animals have been prioritised shocks me. That people who claim to be such caring people can then make threats to other people is also shocking.

The Pen Farthing naysayers might want to watch this:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoEHUUFxUNM

The stuff in the media about him has been truly awful and he’s been scapegoated for the tory abject failure in Afghanistan

It was hardly a death threat. It was a threat to say bad things about them to the press. Considering how busy they are saying bad things about him to the press, I’m not sure they have the moral high ground. The threat isn’t great, but the government are looking to make their fuck ups his fault, when he was caught in the maelstrom and the foreign secretary wouldn’t take calls about the crisis from his holiday.

To be fair though, Pen Farthing would have been in a state of extreme stress etc. It sounds more like he was angry than deliberately threatening. Understandably so at the time. So many lives on the line, and time running out. It's natural.
But of course I don't know exactly what went on, and don't feel comfortable passing judgement on anyone.
The Telegraph is obviously a very right-wing paper, so would obviously be defending the Tory government. To be honest, I don't think it's very responsible of them to print that, especially at the moment, when tensions are so high. It could add fuel to the fire.
I apologise. I'm very tired and didn't read your post properly @TeloMere. I thought you meant that members of the UK public were being bullying and threatening. Which would be very wrong of course. I misread your last paragraph. I didn't realise you were referring to PF. I couldn't stand in judgement of someone who was in the eye of the storm, for not being totally calm. Few people would be.
Anyway, I've got no quarrel with anyone on this thread. There's enough war in the world! We could discuss the Pen Farthing situation till the cows come home.
As explained up thread, I don't understand the level of vitriol he's receiving. But, obviously, the more important thing now, at this point in time, is to see what we can all do, both collectively and individually to help those who need it, in the weeks and months ahead.
Forgive me for the length of this post, and if it's a bit rambling! I'm knackered, and somewhat losing the plot. I'm trying to make sense of things, and kind of thinking aloud.
I hope nothing I've said has caused offence to anyone. That's the last thing I'd want to do. We all agree that the Afghanistan situation is horrendous; and all, I presume, want to help in some way, if possible. That's the most important thing ❤️

He has brought 200 cats and dogs back and left his staff. He's an absolute arsehole and I don't know why MN seem to love him so much; oh yes I do, he's a handsome ex-military white man.

Lot of misinformation.

The Americans control Kabul airport. They decide who gets on planes and fly in and out. Pen’s staff were turned away twice. The US controlled airport would not allow them to fly out. The dogs and cats did not require individual visas. I don’t know what people expect he could have done about any of that.

"The Pen Farthing naysayers might want to watch this:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoEHUUFxUNM

The stuff in the media about him has been truly awful and he’s been scapegoated for the tory abject failure in Afghanistan"

Thanks for that link Campingcarryon. But the Tories will continue to scapegoat him and The Torygraph will continue to describe him as "odious".

I'm surprised more people don't see this for what it is - a massive distraction from the government's failings.

Enough spin and everyone is talking about nasty man with his pets distraction, and not the monstrosity of the UK leaving so many people behind.

I think Pen's heart was in the right place, his intentions were good and - I suspect - he used the animals to tug heartstrings to get his people out. He very nearly succeeded. But it got to the point where he was damned whatever he did, and the government will milk this temporary support for them/hatred for him for everything it has.

Frankly, Ben Wallace is an absolute c**t and should resign over his unprofessional behaviour - and there is also a damning news night video of Boris and Raab circulating today that they are clearly trying to cover up- watch this:
mobile.twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1431551335158198281

I saw that on twitter. It is like some kind of sick parody.

That video is so depressing. No doubt people will be far more willing to make allowances for them than for people actually at risk of death in Afghanistan who made less-than-perfect decisions.