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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think people who worked while claiming furlough should pay back the furlough money?

228 replies

Floogal · 26/08/2021 19:28

A few days ago the 'cannon fodder' actually resonated with me. I've been working in retail for past few years as well as doing temp work in Hospital bank.
Like many others I had to work through the pandemic and did not benefit from furlough. I accept that as it was an emergency fund. What I resent is people getting 2 incomes by working. Also (yes I am bitter about it) my hours got cut to make way for furlough workers at the shop. As for the Hospital bank, furloughed workers were taking up the slots. Though, I believe nepotism is a big part with the Hospital. If someone on JSA was caught working cash in hand they would have to pay back everything. Students have to repay the student loans. So I think double dippers have to pay back some, if not all of the money.
Also fact that lots of people can afford to go on holiday or buy dogs raises eyebrows.

OP posts:

ItsSnowJokes · 28/08/2021 17:16

Everyone that is blaming the people on furlough, are you not spitting mad at the billions upon billions that were wasted and given to tory cronies in ppe and other contracts? That's something to get annoyed about and something you will be paying for for years as well, not Ted down the road who did a few shifts in asda.

How can people survive on 80% if they were struggling to survive on 100%?

ButteringMyArse · 28/08/2021 17:51

What makes you think the people on UC/benefits were not applying for jobs? The fact is these people were competing for limited jobs during a pandemic economic shut down with people who were looking to not only top up their furlough pay but double their usual income.

It's also a fact that there was a shortage of care staff throughout the pandemic. This idea you have that people who needed work were being crowded out by those on furlough going for second jobs and couldn't get anything because of that is an invention.

eeyore228 · 28/08/2021 18:09

I didn't care about people who got furlough pay. They needed it and it wasn't their fault businesses were forced to shut. But I do agree with OP that it was frustrating that some people had nearly 2 full wages because they were allowed to work elsewhere. I personally lost £200 a month because of transport changes but had to suck it up. Meanwhile a friend was furloughed and got another job and drove by in her new car. It just made me angry, I got the need to pay bills etc but she was going on about being paid all her annual leave from the furloughed job, plus the wage and then her extra job to fund luxuries. I found that element sucked. Others were being made redundant around us and genuinely losing money hand over fist. TBF it came across as a bit braggy which really didn't help.

honeybuns007 · 28/08/2021 21:25

OP why did your company cut your hours to give to newly recruited furlough staff? It makes no sense. If you were covering the hours, they didn't need to hire nee furloughed staff surely.

abstractprojection · 29/08/2021 03:51

It’s none of your business, it was legal, and like with everything there are winners and losers and a bit of making it work for you.

How your employers treated you though the pandemic is not the fault of those places on furlough

User56439876 · 29/08/2021 05:50

@honeybuns007

OP why did your company cut your hours to give to newly recruited furlough staff? It makes no sense. If you were covering the hours, they didn't need to hire nee furloughed staff surely.

Retail for some reason, maybe having a larger pool of people, saving on holiday pay always seems to prefer having a lot of shorter term contracts and people doing overtime if they need the extra, many people have contracts of a few hours make up with overtime that holiday pay is not then paid on. When DS was a student he had a fixed contract of 16 hours and often did extra shifts but often holiday pay is not paid on these so a saving on the wage bill

swampytiggaa · 29/08/2021 07:33

@User56439876 that’s not always true about holiday pay. I’m on a 10 hour contract. I generally work 20+ hours a week. When I have holiday it says 10 hours but it’s actually an average of the hours you’ve worked over the year. So I was off early August. Wage slip says 10 hours for that week. I actually got paid 19 hours for the week.

tigger1001 · 29/08/2021 07:36

@hangrylady

I understand those who had to work being peeved but the resentment towards those furloughed is ridiculous. I was furloughed during the first lockdown and it was 3 months of worry about my employment and going insane with boredom, I'd have rather been at work. Those who took second jobs likely did so to make their pay up to 100% or possibly to help their mental health in uncertain times.

Completely agree.

Both dp and I were furloughed. Thankfully only from April until June last year. But it was 8 weeks of constant worry about our jobs and putting a smile on our faces so the kids didn't see how worried we were.

Then came the 90 day redundancy notice letter, which was given to all staff in my work. I got a call on the Friday from my boss and I didn't know whether they were calling me to come back or to invite me in for an interview re my job. Thankfully it was to return to work, but others weren't so lucky.

To see me doing diy projects last year or sit out in the garden with the kids did not show the worry and stress we were feeling. When the 90 day notice letter came, I started looking for a job - any job and would have taken a second one to try and help secure employment should I have been made redundant.

londonrach · 29/08/2021 07:41

Dh was furlough ed and not allowed to work. His company claimed it for him. Personal ly I think they put him on furlough as he had covid and was exhausted so spent the time doing diy resting and recover ING and doing work courses to keep up to date. It was a vvvv stressful time as those on furlough were at risk of reducancy and luckily he was taken back on. We did have a reduction in wages but strangely due to no nursery fees we were ok. He would have preferred to have kept working as would those I know who were on furlough.

User56439876 · 29/08/2021 07:41

swampytiggaa

Thats good, they have probably changed it now, DS worked in a supermarket a few years ago and another work colleague that had worked in retail at the same time mentioned this about the holidays also.

swampytiggaa · 29/08/2021 10:28

@User56439876

swampytiggaa

Thats good, they have probably changed it now, DS worked in a supermarket a few years ago and another work colleague that had worked in retail at the same time mentioned this about the holidays also.

Yeah we all panicked about it because obviously it’s a massive cut in money for the week but it’s been ok.

We do have spells when they put us on contract hours to save money then wonder why deliveries don’t get out on time - I’m a picker for home delivery.

EggT0astBanana4 · 29/08/2021 10:38

Some people

Work cash in hand

Some people earn an income ( various ways) & don't pay tax

I sleep at night, because I have always paid my taxes

Some people do not stick to the rules

EggT0astBanana4 · 29/08/2021 10:40

Some of my friends were furlough

Some got their job back

Some were made redundant

It has been difficult times

Notmeoryou · 29/08/2021 15:05

No. The 80% Furloughed Pay was capped. It didn't cover my bills, so I legitimately took on addition low paid work to make it through.

Lockdownbear · 29/08/2021 15:29

@Notmeoryou

No. The 80% Furloughed Pay was capped. It didn't cover my bills, so I legitimately took on addition low paid work to make it through.

Quite right. People don't seem to understand that the 80% was capped, and may not have covered all people's bills.

Many people like the idea of an extended holiday on 80% money without thinking through that it could be far lower than 80% and there may not be a job to return to at the end of it.

WelliesandWine88 · 29/08/2021 15:30

100% this!!
My husband has never been unemployed. (well not since he became of working age and is 34 now).
He really struggled with furlough not only because he hates not working, but found it hard to adjust to the concept of being paid to do nothing.

In the end we decided it best that he become primary carer at home, and I doubled my hours, as I work from home anyway. Also our kids were in the vulnerable/high risk category so safest option too.

He applies for loads of jobs initially and waas very keen to be working. It had nothing to do with money, and everything to do with mental health.

AllTheSingleLadiess · 29/08/2021 15:50

@Notmeoryou

No. The 80% Furloughed Pay was capped. It didn't cover my bills, so I legitimately took on addition low paid work to make it through.

Some people assume that everyone earns 2500pm max and the 20% is going to work expenses so not needed if on furlough.

Original poster

Floogal · 31/08/2021 12:58

Regarding the recent messages about retail working conditions and someone previously suggested contacting my MP (conservative so they won't care) . Got me thinking that USDAW and other relevant trade unions have missed a trick. Established colleagues who wanted or needed extra hours should have got first refusal for the extra hours. Not furloughed face fits who just arrived

OP posts:

swampytiggaa · 31/08/2021 14:36

@Floogal

Well from a ‘furloughed face fit’ I started in a department that didn’t exist prior to lockdown. (Home delivery and click and collect) Existing members of staff were given the opportunity to transfer in but didn’t want to.

It was a temporary department so we were only expecting to be there for the duration of lockdown. It proved very popular and profitable so it became permanent along with whichever staff wanted to.

We were there doing a job no one else wanted. Had aggravation from existing staff because they didn’t like us altering the way things were done. We were helping to keep people safe at home by giving them extra options for getting their shopping. We were exposed to infection from customers and colleagues all shift long.

It’s not our fault that your company didn’t treat you well. I’m sorry that they did. I’m not sorry that as a low paid non essential retail worker I took a second job as a low paid essential retail worker to make my money up. I prefer that my children don’t go hungry and that my house isn’t repossessed tbh.

BobMortimersPetOwl · 31/08/2021 19:57

Just out of interest, do you think all the roles required would have been required if people weren't paid for doing them?

Would the majority of people not stay home and receive their 80% rather than going out to work, to receive the same 80% they'd have received for not working?

Do you not understand that people have different circumstances? Some received vastly less than 80% of their salaries (I received 48% of mine and then further lost out on bonus payments I would have accrued).

Not everybody was paying out large amounts on travel to work, or on childcare. And yet they still lived pay to pay. Losing any proportion of that pay is going to be tough when it's all accounted for.

The obvious answer for tax credits is to assess on a live basis. Companies submit RTI to HMRC so it isn't beyond the realms of possible to align the 2 systems.

And of course, furlough was a benefit to the company. You absolutely cannot claw back from individuals when the payments were made to companies.

XingMing · 31/08/2021 20:35

We are a micro engineering business in a tourist area. We deal largely with one client, in a government-regulated market. We have furloughed staff when they were unableto gain acccess to sites. Not because they were infected but because the safety rules kept everyone at arms length. Our employees have been paid in full to WFH (if that worked) or to go to site (local NHS hospital trusts are customers, so we are viewed as key workers). And sometimes they have been at home trying to do times tables with the kids, and cook dinner/do laundry. It has been tough on everyone, and I am really reluctant to say anyone is at fault. Some things could probably have been better organised but that is said with hindsight.

notanothertakeaway · 31/08/2021 21:46

I do think it's unfair that someone could be on furlough from company A, and paid to work for company B

But it was permitted, so we have to suck it up and accept that

5128gap · 31/08/2021 22:01

No I really don't. If they were legally entitled to it I couldn't care less. Nor do I care that my neighbour sunbathed while i went to work. Or that somebody somewhere got lunch parcels, while somebody else got a grant, and some people enjoyed lockdown and got a hot tub or went to Greece. I care that I and the people I care for didn't get sick or worse, and that we have our livelihoods, and I care that other people weren't so lucky. But for this petty they got more then me and it's not fair nonsense, no I really don't.

Crikeyalmighty · 31/08/2021 22:19

So many Brits really do have a nasty streak of jealousy at anyone and anything. I can’t tell you the number of times related to Brexit I saw comments like, ‘I voted to make your life as shit as mine’ . People have been having holidays and pets because most have had bugger all to spend it on apart from groceries and bills and lots of people were being paid still but with less costs- it’s not rocket science. I feel really sorry for those who lost jobs and clients but strangely it’s rarely those people I’ve seen moaning

5128gap · 31/08/2021 22:33

I think this last 20 months is the first time some people have realised that fate doesn't deal us all an even hand. It's not like before March we all got an equal share of the good stuff and took turns at the bad is it?

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