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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think people who worked while claiming furlough should pay back the furlough money?

228 replies

Floogal · 26/08/2021 19:28

A few days ago the 'cannon fodder' actually resonated with me. I've been working in retail for past few years as well as doing temp work in Hospital bank.
Like many others I had to work through the pandemic and did not benefit from furlough. I accept that as it was an emergency fund. What I resent is people getting 2 incomes by working. Also (yes I am bitter about it) my hours got cut to make way for furlough workers at the shop. As for the Hospital bank, furloughed workers were taking up the slots. Though, I believe nepotism is a big part with the Hospital. If someone on JSA was caught working cash in hand they would have to pay back everything. Students have to repay the student loans. So I think double dippers have to pay back some, if not all of the money.
Also fact that lots of people can afford to go on holiday or buy dogs raises eyebrows.

OP posts:
GrandTheftWalrus · 26/08/2021 22:31

When I had both jobs my tax code was split between them, probably because they were both zero hours, my tax code also changed month to month depending on which one I was earning more at.

YouLuckyBugger · 26/08/2021 22:35

As a tax payer I object to people being paid by me for doing nada and then earning more from a second job

So what you're saying is you'd rather those people not have bothered doing mainly keyworker roles that we were desperate for, just to save your own bitterness that they were earning more than you?

Sounds like a good plan. I'm sure that would have been beneficial to all of us...

Original poster
Floogal · 26/08/2021 23:05

@Imnothereforthedrama

Oh *@Floogal* if your really think this way why start a thread then never post ? Or do you like to start a thread knowing very well you will get lots of posts? Honestly get a life your not that daft.
People who say 'get a life' usually need to take their own advice 😎. Also what do you want me to say? It was a complete c**t-punt being face to face with people refusing to distance, wear masks and even cover their mouths when coughing. Being moaned at for long queues, lack of deliveries etc etc. Lack of hours was always an issue in my retail job, hence why I had to do temp work on the bank. But come lockdown 3 my hours got cut even more, and the temp work dried up during lockdown 1. While at the same time new staff were being taken on and given more hours and duties. So I admit that I'm bitter.
OP posts:
Potteringshed · 26/08/2021 23:09

The other thing no one ever seems to get is that the furlough scheme wasn't there so the individuals could have a nice holiday. It was there to keep money flowing at the economy functioning, while also keeping people at home. Without it we'd have had a 30% unemployment rate, and a horrific depression which would have also fucked all the sanctimonious key workers on here.

Pitapotamus · 26/08/2021 23:13

Furlough was t full pay, it was 80% of wages or £1500 (whichever was less). Also, anyone sensible who was furloughed would have realised that their job is not essential and perhaps even their industry would take a hit and they may have no job to go back to.

I wasn’t furloughed, but I’d i been, I wouldn’t have been able to survive on £1500 per month and I’d have wanted to get another job ASAP in case my actual job disappeared as a result of covid.

The government made it clear that furloughed people were free to work a different job while being on furlough from their actual job.

blackheartsgirl · 26/08/2021 23:32

I was furloughed on 80 percent. Couldn't survive on that so went and got a job in the NHS. Luckily I did cos 6 weeks later I was made redundant from my first job. Didnt have to claim jobseekers.
I worked in the aerospace industry. We were fucked over royally in our company.

I did what i could to survive.

And no I didn't have holidays or buy a dog

Mantlemoose · 26/08/2021 23:39

I agree, I know so many people who were furloughed that got other jobs so almost doubled their income. Anyone who found an additional job should only have received one income.

I probably think this because like you OP I wasn't furloughed. Had I been furloughed as I couldn't go anywhere or do anything I could have coped on 80% of my wages no problem!

blackheartsgirl · 26/08/2021 23:48

My husband was also furloughed on 80 percent as we both worked in the same industry.

Over night we lost 40 percent of our wages.

Seriously we couldn't survive on 40 percent. We tried. We got into rent arrears and other things. I got a cleaning job in the NHS.

I'm still there now. I lost my job and my husband kept his.

I'm so glad I did, especially now as he's dead

Topofthepopicles · 27/08/2021 00:26

YABU because unlike with benefit fraud those who were furloughed were allowed to work in other jobs (just not the one they were furloughed from). Making people pay it back would therefore be unfair. You also don’t know peoples motivations or circumstances. For example one situation I know of (friend of a friend) involved two parents both furloughed with 20% pay cuts and one went to do a ‘second’ job to pay the bills, whilst the other home schooled, then there were hardly doing some awful irresponsible thing. Even if it was just for extra cash or savings, then that was allowed.

Your ire should be aimed at those who wrote the rules for the scheme not the people taking work away from you.

trappedsincesundaymorn · 27/08/2021 01:03

80% of minimum wage in 2020 was around £1100 before tax, NI and employee pension contributions. What would have done if you were in that situation OP? Sat on your arse all day worrying about how you were going to get through the month, or try and do something about it? Do you think landlords, utility companies, supermarkets etc would accept being told "sorry I can only pay you 80% because that's all I'm being paid"?

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 27/08/2021 01:46

I don’t really think you are right, but I do think there should be some acknowledgment of the public sector who worked throughout. Especially those either having to put their kids in school and worrying about their health, or trying to work full time from home with sole care of children (those not classed as key in the first lockdown).

There should be some acknowledgment other than pay free and potential tax high to pay for everyone else’s furlongh.

Asherline · 27/08/2021 02:36

I respect anyone who took control of their won situation and did the best they could. Not worth around for everyone to diss them, if you can legally get a second job while on furlough that is something your family will respect because your looking after their future!!

Lockdownbear · 27/08/2021 07:13

@blackheartsgirl

My husband was also furloughed on 80 percent as we both worked in the same industry.

Over night we lost 40 percent of our wages.

Seriously we couldn't survive on 40 percent. We tried. We got into rent arrears and other things. I got a cleaning job in the NHS.

I'm still there now. I lost my job and my husband kept his.

I'm so glad I did, especially now as he's dead

I'm so sorry Flowers
ButteringMyArse · 27/08/2021 08:19

I agree, I know so many people who were furloughed that got other jobs so almost doubled their income. Anyone who found an additional job should only have received one income.

This would've been a good way to ensure that those industries who were desperate for workers were even more up the creek, instead of being able to at least recruit a few furloughed people.

ItsSnowJokes · 27/08/2021 08:58

The cost of millions of people suddenly unemployed and claiming job seekers and universal credit etc.... would have far outweighed the cost of furlough. DWP would have had to employ thousands of staff to do all the necessary benefit checks etc...... and the system would have collapsed as they wouldn't have had enough time to recruit and train the staff needed for the millions of applications coming in. Businesses would have crumbled by the thousands. The country would have been crippled and we would be in a much worse position than we are now financially with a much harder task to get the country back up and running.

Also a lot of people furloughed have eventually been made redundant any way. I am one of them. Luckily I got a job quite quickly but it has dented all my self confidence and my feelings for work colleagues. I got made redundant along with 14 others (from a team of 50) and no other work colleagues (some we counted as friends) got in touch with any of us. Its like we were tainted and no one wanted to associate with us.

So no it wasn't a fucking picnic of holidays and pets! I have had neither. I just about got through it without being admitted to a mental health unit.

User7458 · 27/08/2021 09:06

@trappedsincesundaymorn

80% of minimum wage in 2020 was around £1100 before tax, NI and employee pension contributions. What would have done if you were in that situation OP? Sat on your arse all day worrying about how you were going to get through the month, or try and do something about it? Do you think landlords, utility companies, supermarkets etc would accept being told "sorry I can only pay you 80% because that's all I'm being paid"?
Those that had to have UC were expected to live on a lot less
ItsSnowJokes · 27/08/2021 09:08

@User7458 it's not a race to the bottom! There will always be someone worse off than someone else. This was put into place at record speed to save the economy from a massive meltdown of catastrophic proportions.

Lostmarbles2021 · 27/08/2021 09:11

Plenty of companies misused the furlough scheme and used tax payers money to maintain or boost profits when they didn’t need to. I think that would be my profit getting some of the money back. I know of a couple of law firms that behaved very unethically in this respect.

Lostmarbles2021 · 27/08/2021 09:11

*that would be my priority

GallowwayGirl88 · 27/08/2021 09:21

@Lostmarbles2021

Plenty of companies misused the furlough scheme and used tax payers money to maintain or boost profits when they didn’t need to. I think that would be my profit getting some of the money back. I know of a couple of law firms that behaved very unethically in this respect.
You can report companies who claimed furlough fraudulently.

I know of a garden centre/ florist who claimed furlough for all his staff…one said staff member delivered flowers to me on my wedding day, despite being furloughed and told me how busy they were Hmm

Lockdownbear · 27/08/2021 09:25

@ItsSnowJokes

The cost of millions of people suddenly unemployed and claiming job seekers and universal credit etc.... would have far outweighed the cost of furlough. DWP would have had to employ thousands of staff to do all the necessary benefit checks etc...... and the system would have collapsed as they wouldn't have had enough time to recruit and train the staff needed for the millions of applications coming in. Businesses would have crumbled by the thousands. The country would have been crippled and we would be in a much worse position than we are now financially with a much harder task to get the country back up and running.

Also a lot of people furloughed have eventually been made redundant any way. I am one of them. Luckily I got a job quite quickly but it has dented all my self confidence and my feelings for work colleagues. I got made redundant along with 14 others (from a team of 50) and no other work colleagues (some we counted as friends) got in touch with any of us. Its like we were tainted and no one wanted to associate with us.

So no it wasn't a fucking picnic of holidays and pets! I have had neither. I just about got through it without being admitted to a mental health unit.

You are absolutely right, furlough was a response to an emergency situation.

The thing you missed was redundancy payments, many companies would have gone to the wall, forcing the Government to pick up the redundancy payments for many people.

Redundancy would also have had an negitive effect on getting the economy back up and running. Business trying to recruit, older staff with tons of experience happy to hang up their boots, just makes it doubly difficult.
It's one thing taking over a roll when things are going smoothly, it's another thing when things have been all over the place.

HarrietsChariot · 27/08/2021 09:28

The furlough money should definitely be reclaimed through a special tax on the people who received it. It should work the same way my student loan did, say 10% on anything over 15k pa, with interest being charged. It would be fair on everyone, the people who worked through furlough won't pay anything and the people who claimed it will know that they received the support at the time they needed it - and on much better terms than if they'd run up an overdraft or credit card debt.

Lockdownbear · 27/08/2021 09:33

@HarrietsChariot

The furlough money should definitely be reclaimed through a special tax on the people who received it. It should work the same way my student loan did, say 10% on anything over 15k pa, with interest being charged. It would be fair on everyone, the people who worked through furlough won't pay anything and the people who claimed it will know that they received the support at the time they needed it - and on much better terms than if they'd run up an overdraft or credit card debt.
Are you going to do the same with all benefits? Child benefit, UC, tax credits?

People were given a limited amount of money to help them and businesses through a crisis.

pointythings · 27/08/2021 09:38

This thread is depressing. So many people happy to take money off others just to make themselves feel better. Yes, go after the companies that abused the furlough scheme - but not their employees. They wouldn't have been given a choice about continuing to work.

I now understand why the Tories do so well in this country - it's the politics of 'Yes, we know you have nothing. But look, here's someone who has slightly more than you. Vote for me and we'll take money off them!' No empathy, no altruism, no human decency.

ButteringMyArse · 27/08/2021 09:40

@HarrietsChariot

The furlough money should definitely be reclaimed through a special tax on the people who received it. It should work the same way my student loan did, say 10% on anything over 15k pa, with interest being charged. It would be fair on everyone, the people who worked through furlough won't pay anything and the people who claimed it will know that they received the support at the time they needed it - and on much better terms than if they'd run up an overdraft or credit card debt.
There should be a special tax on people who are actually advocating this, to pay for all the legal costs when furlough recipients challenge the decision to retrospectively change the terms. You and OP first.