To think people who worked while claiming furlough should pay back the furlough money?

[Floogal]

A few days ago the 'cannon fodder' actually resonated with me. I've been working in retail for past few years as well as doing temp work in Hospital bank.
Like many others I had to work through the pandemic and did not benefit from furlough. I accept that as it was an emergency fund. What I resent is people getting 2 incomes by working. Also (yes I am bitter about it) my hours got cut to make way for furlough workers at the shop. As for the Hospital bank, furloughed workers were taking up the slots. Though, I believe nepotism is a big part with the Hospital. If someone on JSA was caught working cash in hand they would have to pay back everything. Students have to repay the student loans. So I think double dippers have to pay back some, if not all of the money.
Also fact that lots of people can afford to go on holiday or buy dogs raises eyebrows.

Well reading these posts it seems that I was diddled. Was a food retail worker and worked through lockdown while many of you sat at home. One poster above saved for a house deposit while on furlough and took another job. I am livid!!!

@peppermintpat totally agree! I would have taken a 20% income reduction to not have to stress about childcare. My petrol and childcare costs would have covered some of this. Instead we were working in 32 degree heat last summer, draped in plastic gowns with ffp3 masks on and not so much as a thank you, let alone a pay rise!

During the first lockdown I was working in a supermarket, I went from part time to full time because half our staff had to go off shielding due to being vulnerable (I had been there over 9 years). When that lockdown ended I left and got a new job in the hospitality industry, then lockdown 2 happened and I was put on furlough, but my old employer messaged me to ask if I wanted any shifts as I was trained up for both morning and night shifts and they were desperate. What was I supposed to do tell her no thanks as it is now unfair on other key workers as I am getting furlough and people might be bitter about it and expect me to pay it all back or do I go back to my old job while my new one is closed and help out?

Initially I said YANBU but on further reading I reckon you should be more angry at the politicians lining their pockets from covid, rather than someone on minimum wage who is trying to survive juggling two jobs.

Tbh it's just like any other kind of "benefit" or public funds - people will always have an opinion on whether others should qualify.

Take universal credit. Some people receive it and really struggle on it, have to use food banks because it's not enough for them. Others manage ok on it. A small proportion are very well off on it. But it would cost the tax payer more in admin / staff costs to filter out the small amount of claimants who, technically, could manage on a bit less.

Also by taking a second job, I didn't need tax credits and I was paying tax into the system to help pay for the furlough scheme. When you consider the amount of tax those benefiting from the furlough scheme have generally put into the system over the years, the balance is getting redressed. If it was decided to make all those claiming regular benefits to pay anything back they'd received from the state the moment they were back in work, no one would ever go back in to work. This way round a lot of hard working tax earners are just getting a bit of a return on all the tax they have paid into the system over the years (particularly for people without children whose taxes are used for schools they don't use, or single people paying only 25% less council tax than a family of 6 next door etc etc). No system is ever going to be perfect and given the circumstances and the speed at which it was decided the furlough scheme has been a great success. There are many less worthy schemes the government plough millions into that often only either benefit a few or from which people from this country see no return from.

It’s not going to happen. It would cost far too much to investigate and prosecute.

Furlough saved probably a million plus jobs and stopped businesses and charities from going under.

If we hadn't paid furlough we'd have paid unemployment benefit.

In the long run furlough is a bargain and far cheaper than the costs the costs of mass unemployment and deep recession.

I do loathe these nasty threads. It really shows off the worst in our society.

Oh good. Another furlough bashing thread. I've not seen one for a while.

No they shouldn't be made to pay it back. For many reasons.

Furlough wasn't paid directly to an individual and they couldn't claim it. It was claimed by the employer. It was there to stop people being made redundant in their thousands.

Many really struggled with a reduction in their wages and couldn't make ends meet.

Constantly living with the worry that furlough would turn into redundancy. And for more than a few it already has.

Self employed could claim grants and also work else where (and I don't blame them for that - many had the same issues, not being able to make ends meet and never knowing whether they could get back to their business) but these threads never seem to object to that - only furloughed.

Without some taking additional work some essential services would have struggled to meet demand.

Furloughed workers are such an easy target and can't win. Sit at home, they were slated. And oh my god never mention anything positive you did with your time, as you will just be eaten alive. Go out and try and make up for a shortfall in wages and get slated for that too.

YABU. My industry was shut down on and off for 12 months and my husband's totally for 12 months. He received 80% and as my work is split between employed and self-employed work I received furlough from the employed work (as it was the greater at 55% of my salary) so therefore I was getting 35% of my salary. I HAD to try and do other things in order to pay our mortgage and bills.

A friend of mine (on what I consider a very good salary) was WFH full time on full salary. She moaned the whole pandemic about how unfair it was that other people were on furlough whilst she was working FT. She just couldn't grasp how lucky she was to have job security and a full salary.

Paying furlough was about the only thing the government got right , families were under tremendous pressure with no expectations that their job would survive , they still had the same financial demands rents, food , poll tax . The children were at home and had to be cared for , elderly parents to support , my daughter works part time and only got 80% pay and still needed financial support from us so that she didn’t fall into debt . God knows what would have happened if both her and her partner had no income at all! And no way could she now pay it back either 😱

Why are you so bothered about other people?

I agree with you OP that if a person got another job, then their furlough pay should have tapered off so that no one would get more than 100% of their usual pay. So many people ended up jobless, losing their homes, and on benefits because of Covid and the people who didn’t need the money taking what jobs were available made it worse.

There was one thread on here of a person who was furlough from job #1, so got job #2, which also furloughed him and he was now working job #3. So this person was getting 80% + 80% + 100%, or basically was getting TWICE the money of what they usually got and the poster was just crowing about paying down their mortgage, planning a huge holiday, buying new cars with cash. It was sickening when you think of all the people in the hospitality industry, or airlines, etc that were struggling just to put food on the table and some asshole who thinks that pulling down double furlough sitting at home doing nothing wasn’t enough even though it exceeded his take home pay preCovid.

Greed in any form is sickening.

Yes if people were paid furlough and worked they have to pay it back there has already been a department set up by the government to investigate claims, some people have already gone to prison, business owners that claimed for staff that didn’t exist, claimed for staff that still worked and those that did deals ie will claim and both get money benefit, so just like HRMC it’s only a matter of time before they find a fraud or mistake in the paperwork or your sibling, friend or in-law or soon to be ex that you think you are so close to gets a bit jealous and rats on you, then it will be let’s have 40% out of your income etc this financial year or worse

@PlanDeRaccordement

I agree with you OP that if a person got another job, then their furlough pay should have tapered off so that no one would get more than 100% of their usual pay. So many people ended up jobless, losing their homes, and on benefits because of Covid and the people who didn’t need the money taking what jobs were available made it worse.

There was one thread on here of a person who was furlough from job #1, so got job #2, which also furloughed him and he was now working job #3. So this person was getting 80% + 80% + 100%, or basically was getting TWICE the money of what they usually got and the poster was just crowing about paying down their mortgage, planning a huge holiday, buying new cars with cash. It was sickening when you think of all the people in the hospitality industry, or airlines, etc that were struggling just to put food on the table and some asshole who thinks that pulling down double furlough sitting at home doing nothing wasn’t enough even though it exceeded his take home pay preCovid.

Greed in any form is sickening.

I don't actually believe that because you needed to be in the post before March to be entitled to furlough.

@Backwaterjunction

Yes if people were paid furlough and worked they have to pay it back there has already been a department set up by the government to investigate claims, some people have already gone to prison, business owners that claimed for staff that didn’t exist, claimed for staff that still worked and those that did deals ie will claim and both get money benefit, so just like HRMC it’s only a matter of time before they find a fraud or mistake in the paperwork or your sibling, friend or in-law or soon to be ex that you think you are so close to gets a bit jealous and rats on you, then it will be let’s have 40% out of your income etc this financial year or worse

That's only if you were getting furlough but still working for that company and not actually furloughed.

You could be furloughed from a company and take a job at another while on furlough. All within the rules.

I agree with you OP that if a person got another job, then their furlough pay should have tapered off so that no one would get more than 100% of their usual pay. So many people ended up jobless, losing their homes, and on benefits because of Covid and the people who didn’t need the money taking what jobs were available made it worse.

This is ridiculous.

There has never been a time during the pandemic when there wasn't a shortage of care workers, so furloughed people clearly were not taking what jobs were available. Even if we accepted that they weren't in need of the money, which is something you've made up. Plus your idea about a 100% cap would also have meant those taking second jobs would've worked much less, which again would have been a problem for those industries who were desperate for workers.

People's envy and warped ideas of fairness is leading them into stupidity.

YANBU. There was no furlough for people like me. I had to find work to keep going or go on benefits. So anyone who took another job needs to be examining their conscience, if they one, and giving back what they should don't have taken in the first place. Greedy so and sos.

@Mirw

YANBU. There was no furlough for people like me. I had to find work to keep going or go on benefits. So anyone who took another job needs to be examining their conscience, if they one, and giving back what they should don't have taken in the first place. Greedy so and sos.

Why shouldn't people have taken another job? Furlough was capped, so depending on their wage they might have been down 40% of their normal wage. But still got 100% mortgage, cars, bills to pay.

You really can't blame people for trying.

I suspect there is a lot of jealousy amongst people who were in secure jobs, against those who were in a difficult position with no guarantee of when they'd return to work, because people perceive it as some had a holiday.

Are those people also jealous of people who survive on UC?

@TheatricalGiraffe

I was Furloughed all last year (and still would be if I hadn't changed jobs) and worked all the way through in a supermarket (Different company, different industry, ect)...

The way I saw it was..yes I was able to save basically a house deposit as I was able to work but I wanted to work...It wasn't my fault that Boris shut my former industry down and made it illegal for me to work..

Why should I sit at home bored out of my brain when I could be out earning money. My former company approved anyone who wanted to work during Furlough (not for them obviously) and didn't put any restrictions on us.

Also the store I worked at (and I think company wide) suspended online applications so you could literally walk in with a CV and start that day. I didn't take a job away from anyone, they hired thousands of us.

And the OP rests her case

A lad at my previous company was off sick (injured knee) so he was put on furlough

Part way through he rang to see if it was okay to get another job in a warehouse whilst being paid furlough. Baring in mind he was off sick from his actual job in a warehouse!

It didn't go down too well and when he came back on light duties he was given some mind numbing work to do as punishment no doubt

My BIL was put on furlough and asked to still do work here and there. Like everything it gets abused

I think ppl being on furlough and then getting a job isn't allowed under a lot of circumstance but again like everything, it gets abused

I think ppl being on furlough and then getting a job isn't allowed under a lot of circumstance but again like everything, it gets abused

There were definitely no rules stopping people taking on a second job. Many people have second jobs or work two part-time jobs anyway.

You weren't meant to work for your employer who'd furloughed you, until they brought in the part-time furlough.

At the end of the day, furlough was needed to avoid mass redundancy, companies being unable to pay redundancy month and going bust.
The economy benefits from people being able to get back to quickly too.

I agree OP, I work in the public sector, we worked plenty of overtime unpaid and have been rewarded with a payfreeze. Without promotions my salary would've increased by 1% in ten years because of public sector payfreezes. Yet we were expected in throughout, DH in particular dealing with a section of society not known for being rule abiding, and with high levels of Covid. I wish I could've either been furloughed and enjoyed time off with my family, rather than both trying to work full time with no available childcare for a fair proportion of time, or taken on another full-time job earning 180% of my usual earnings for a year or more. My SIL did the former for more than a year, then complained she didn't want to go back to work! You won't get much support here though.

Well I have two jobs and I was furloughed from one therefore I was able to pick up extra shifts in the other which being a single mother not by choice I’m a widow helped me out tremendously. I was able to save enough for a car for my dd who was learning to drive before lockdown put a stop to it. Ordinarily I would never have been able to help her in this way.

@MyrtlethePurpleTurtle Okay...So the OP rests her case. So I was meant to stay sat at home on 80% of my wage for what would be 18 months (bear in mind the company I used to work for are still furloughing their staff and the minimal staff that are back are doing 4/5 hours a week and I would still be Furloughed if I hadn't got a new job)..

Funny how no one at my 2nd job complained about the amount I was able to save when I was the only one prepared to stay until midnight or start at 5am.. Also... for the store I was in, at least the majority of us brought in were furloughed workers to cover the people shielding and when those people came back they all came back with changes to hours so they took on about half of us permanently to cover all the gaps that had been created...

I could've sat at home yes, instead I chose to go and work in a supermarket being shouted at by rude customers all day and being coughed on by old ladies who don't understand the concept of covering their nose with a mask...

Lets not forget Furlough wasn't a choice..it was literally illegal for my industry to operate (large events) and yes while I made a very nice cushion of savings I also doubled what I was paying in tax each month..