To think people who worked while claiming furlough should pay back the furlough money?

[Floogal]

A few days ago the 'cannon fodder' actually resonated with me. I've been working in retail for past few years as well as doing temp work in Hospital bank.
Like many others I had to work through the pandemic and did not benefit from furlough. I accept that as it was an emergency fund. What I resent is people getting 2 incomes by working. Also (yes I am bitter about it) my hours got cut to make way for furlough workers at the shop. As for the Hospital bank, furloughed workers were taking up the slots. Though, I believe nepotism is a big part with the Hospital. If someone on JSA was caught working cash in hand they would have to pay back everything. Students have to repay the student loans. So I think double dippers have to pay back some, if not all of the money.
Also fact that lots of people can afford to go on holiday or buy dogs raises eyebrows.

You are right but it's not going to happen 🤷🏻‍♀️.

When furloughed you don't get paid for being called into work.
I work in a university & we ended up on weekly rota's but didn't get any extra pay.
It's illegal to be furloughed and get paid work.

@TheatricalGiraffe

I was Furloughed all last year (and still would be if I hadn't changed jobs) and worked all the way through in a supermarket (Different company, different industry, ect)...

The way I saw it was..yes I was able to save basically a house deposit as I was able to work but I wanted to work...It wasn't my fault that Boris shut my former industry down and made it illegal for me to work..

Why should I sit at home bored out of my brain when I could be out earning money. My former company approved anyone who wanted to work during Furlough (not for them obviously) and didn't put any restrictions on us.

Also the store I worked at (and I think company wide) suspended online applications so you could literally walk in with a CV and start that day. I didn't take a job away from anyone, they hired thousands of us.

Therefore you're one of the many for whom furlough has beena nice little earner.

People who were furloughed were allowed to take a second job, but not supposed to work for the employer they were furloughed from.

It's not that unusual in the UK for people to work more than one job in normal times, esp with zero hour contracts.
You start trying to put restrictions on in it becomes a nightmare to setup and manage. Which defeats the purpose of it in the first place. I remember someone on here being stunned their teen was getting furloughed from a part-time job. And lots ranting that's not what furlough was intended for, but how do you define a teen who needs to help out with the household bills and a teen who is just working for pocket money. Bottom line is you can't.

I quite frankly disgusted at some people on this thread. As a PP said it showed how the tories get so many votes!

This was an emergency situation, they had to act fast. They did what was the best situation in a total shit show.

Should those who got stamp duty exemption pay it back now? Cos why should others pay the stamp duty for others when they haven't bought a house? Should job seekers allowance be paid back at x amount a month when that person finds a job? Same with universal credit etc..... of course not. It was there for an amount of time you needed it.

*I'm

@ItsSnowJokes

I quite frankly disgusted at some people on this thread. As a PP said it showed how the tories get so many votes!

This was an emergency situation, they had to act fast. They did what was the best situation in a total shit show.

Should those who got stamp duty exemption pay it back now? Cos why should others pay the stamp duty for others when they haven't bought a house? Should job seekers allowance be paid back at x amount a month when that person finds a job? Same with universal credit etc..... of course not. It was there for an amount of time you needed it.

Totally agree. I'm genuinely shocked at this thread. Frankly, it would cost too much in admin costs to claim it back from a few people who might have made a bit extra from it.

I have friends who saved 10k in a year from not sending their DD to nursery. (They kept her off for a year due to one of them being CEV) That money is going towards a new kitchen. I suppose this is unfair going by some of the comments on this thread. The UC top up is being ended, should that money be paid back too? How far does it go?!

This was an emergency situation, they had to act fast. They did what was the best situation in a total shit show

FWIW I agree with this; when things are done in a rush mistakes always get made, but 18 months down the line there's been little improvement IMO, and as usual there's too much focus on personal graft and not enough on the common good

There's also no effective opposition and no real mechanism for day to day accountability, but those would fill whole threads just on their own

I do think it’s unfair people who didn’t benefit and had to continue to work and risk their health as keyworkers etc will be paying back the furlough costs. So will everyone else, including those who were furloughed.

Friend of mine was "laid off" before the furlough scheme was announced. Company paid the national guaranteed amount only, the maximum you can get is £30 a day for 5 days in any 3-month period. So too right, she went out and got another job. About a week later the furlough scheme was announced and about a week after that the company decided to participate in it. Even so, a couple of months later, she was made redundant.

Not everyone who was furloughed and took a second job was rolling in money waiting for when they could return to a secure well paid job.

@cadburyegg I continued to pay my childminders fees in full throughout the whole first lockdown (the only period they were closed) so she didn't go out of business and I still had childcare at the end of it! So should she pay me back? Of course not, I don't believe in passing the shit down the line unlike other posters on here.

Glad you see it the way I do!

I don't think that they did anything wrong. Companies like the supermarkets needed people quickly and temporarily so why not furloughed people? We are seeing the massive consequences of a lack of HGV drivers at the moment. Allowing this flexibility was better than risking the possibility that households could survive on 80% of their usual income which is unlikely as it suggests that people could save 20% of what they earn which isn't happening

Imagine if supermarkets couldn't hire furloughed people- they wouldn't have been able to deliver as much food or organize the huge increase in click and collects that were needed. People were needed to stock the shelves because people were told to shop less often so were buying more with each visit and so on. Multiply this with other industries and it was a reasonable way to make the labour market flexible in this emergency.

MN 2020 - "those on furlough sitting around all day doing nothing whilst the rest of us are working...selfish bastards"

MN 2021 - "how dare those on furlough take a 2nd job meaning we aren't working crazy hours.....selfish bastards"

We were damned if we did and damned if we didn't.

There was a guy at my DH work that was really struggling finically before lockdown. My DH would often bring in extra lunch to work so he could share it with him because the guy would just be eating plain slices of bread.

They were all furloughed with 80% pay and we were really worried about the guy because there was no way he would survive on such a pay-cut. Luckily he was able to find a part-time second job.

There are plenty of people who would have rather gone back to work then be on furlough. We were lucky because my work actual picked up during my DH furlough period. If not we would have had to cancel some of the renovation work we had already booked before lockdown and those people would have been out of work as well.

I think a lot of people forget that if the furlough was not introduced a lot of companies would have gone under. Making a large part of the population unemployed with no companies to hire them. The debt the country would be in from unemployment payments and the economic crisis to follow would have be a lot worse than the current furlough debt.

No. The rules allowed people to get another job whilst furloughed. You can't blame people for that, or expect them to pay the money back

I don't think the tax saving from being paid via dividends is actually that big. You do have to pay corporation tax, you know.

For reference DH's last full year trading netted him about £60,000 personal income, most of which was dividends. The tax on that is about £11,000 if paid by PAYE. DH paid about £10,000 corporation tax that year. So I think the difference is not actually as great as some imagine.

In any case, the point is that obviously he had to work and claim furlough at the same time, as his entire industry was closed and we did all still need to eat etc. We definitely were not swanning around buying puppies and going on expensive holidays or whatever.

You need to raise with your MP. Rules allowed furloughed workers to take work elsewhere. Its natural to feel how you do. I will never shake off my bitterness at people who sat and got paid for doing nothing whilst I worked my arse off without thanks

Everything that has happened with the furlough scheme etc. is so unfair at my company. I worked all the way through 100% + many unpaid hours, because my role is business critical, with a drop in salary across the whole company. Some colleagues were and still are furloughed & are allowed to work a 2nd job. I am worse off financially, the stress has been off the scale & to rub salt in the wound, the furloughed people doing extra jobs as delivery drivers etc. have been hailed as heroes & are being given a special awards. The disparity of treatment beggars belief.

Working for the NHS and having to find someone to look after your children whilst you still had to attend your workplace is not really comparable to working from home. The risks involved were so much higher, wfh means you don't have to pay petrol, no childcare worries, no risk of Coronavirus (unpaid leave from work or SSP). Not even had a pay rise in the industry in which I work as we were told our employers were not working at 100% due to restrictions in place. Funnily enough they have thousands of pounds available to spend on equipment that will likely never be used. Everyone who worked during the pandemic did a wonderful job however we are the fimancial losers in this situation.

I kind of agree with you.

My friend has a 6-figure salary and works in an industry that wasn't directly affected by lockdown I.e. not hospitality or retail. He was on furlough (at his choice) for nearly 6 months with his salary topped up by his company so didn't lose a penny. He sat at home doing nothing. In my opinion furlough should have gone ONLY to those directly affected industries that shut down. Not to bankers etc whose company's wanted to have their staff's salaries funded by the tax-payer.

I also know of somebody who was self-employed and working for my company who had a "business" on the side which wasn't operating. They claimed the £50k government fund for their "business" left their full-time job and went back to Eastern Europe to build their house with the money. I think a lot of tax-payers money went into the wrong hands personally.

I see furlough the same as social benefits - it should go to those who genuinely need it and not those taking advantage.

Personally I don’t see what your beef is. And yes, I also worked throughout whilst being CEV. And yes, I had to sort furlough out for other employees. I didn’t begrudge them because it wasn’t their fault. It was a decision not taken lightly at all by our MD.

@PineapplePanda

I kind of agree with you.

My friend has a 6-figure salary and works in an industry that wasn't directly affected by lockdown I.e. not hospitality or retail. He was on furlough (at his choice) for nearly 6 months with his salary topped up by his company so didn't lose a penny. He sat at home doing nothing. In my opinion furlough should have gone ONLY to those directly affected industries that shut down. Not to bankers etc whose company's wanted to have their staff's salaries funded by the tax-payer.

I also know of somebody who was self-employed and working for my company who had a "business" on the side which wasn't operating. They claimed the £50k government fund for their "business" left their full-time job and went back to Eastern Europe to build their house with the money. I think a lot of tax-payers money went into the wrong hands personally.

I see furlough the same as social benefits - it should go to those who genuinely need it and not those taking advantage.

And the costs of means testing the furlough would have eaten up any savings made by the few people who played the system. The salaries needed for the people doing the checking would all be paid out of the tax payers purse.

People who say 'get a life' usually need to take their own advice 😎.
Also what do you want me to say?
It was a complete c**t-punt being face to face with people refusing to distance, wear masks and even cover their mouths when coughing. Being moaned at for long queues, lack of deliveries etc etc. Lack of hours was always an issue in my retail job, hence why I had to do temp work on the bank. But come lockdown 3 my hours got cut even more, and the temp work dried up during lockdown 1. While at the same time new staff were being taken on and given more hours and duties. So I admit that I'm bitter.

Oh you bite @Floogal I’m honoured your only reply on the whole thread .
Anyway yes your right about the getting a life I do have a life although not very exciting I admit but at least I’m not bitter and start goady threads .you crack on if it makes you happy but does it really …
In to answer your question I really don’t understand that it was you think people should pay back furlough so you think everyone who was furlough was coughing in your face ? . Very strange comment and a way at looking at life .

I had a part time job in aviation where I'd worked for nearly 30 years. Before Covid I had topped up my income letting a room to foreign students, obviously this secondary income immediately dried up and it will be some time before it returns. I am still on furlough (receiving a lot less than 80% of my previous wage, due to various components of my salary not being counted). I had the worry of being made redundant, still do. In normal circumstances I could have taken a second job and during furlough I have worked pretty much throughout, for the past 6 months with the NHS, but at a much lower rate than my regular job paid. With my furloughed job and NHS hours combined I work approx 40 hours per week and still earn about the same as I previously did part time for the airline. In the meantime the airline has taken the opportunity to reduce my future pay and conditions and used Covid as an excuse to do this. I count myself very lucky to have remained furloughed all this time, if I go back to the airline I will still need a second job, as will many people in full time jobs. Working for the NHS has opened my eyes as to how little people are expected to earn and survive, there are some truly amazing people working for barely anything. Whilst the furlough scheme has been a life saver for many, the government needs to look at ways to improve the wages of loyal key workers proportionate to the dedication and hours put in. However, no system was going to be perfect and the way the NHS has organised the vaccinations whilst carrying on with the other services it offers has been incredible. Everything is down to money, but most importantly how it is managed going forward.

I get your point OP. The government is hard up enough as it is without having provided income which in some instances benefitted people who didnt always need it. I know a few people who shortened their planned maternity leave to go back to a job knowing they would be immediately furloughed, as the furlough pay was higher than Smp.

It's difficult though. Clearly people couldn't be expected to stay home if they wanted to work and there was work available, but I think many people would not have chosen to work if they couldnt double up on income, and the reality is we probably desperately needed all those people who filled gaps delivering and in retail.

Lack of hours was always an issue in my retail job, hence why I had to do temp work on the bank. But come lockdown 3 my hours got cut even more, and the temp work dried up during lockdown 1. While at the same time new staff were being taken on and given more hours and duties. So I admit that I'm bitter

This raises 2 questions

1...why was it ok for you to have 2 jobs to make ends meet, but not ok for those on furlough?

and

2..if the bank work dried up why did you not look for a job to replace it rather than bitch about those who were doing exactly that?