To think people who worked while claiming furlough should pay back the furlough money?

[Floogal]

A few days ago the 'cannon fodder' actually resonated with me. I've been working in retail for past few years as well as doing temp work in Hospital bank.
Like many others I had to work through the pandemic and did not benefit from furlough. I accept that as it was an emergency fund. What I resent is people getting 2 incomes by working. Also (yes I am bitter about it) my hours got cut to make way for furlough workers at the shop. As for the Hospital bank, furloughed workers were taking up the slots. Though, I believe nepotism is a big part with the Hospital. If someone on JSA was caught working cash in hand they would have to pay back everything. Students have to repay the student loans. So I think double dippers have to pay back some, if not all of the money.
Also fact that lots of people can afford to go on holiday or buy dogs raises eyebrows.

[quote iamruth]**@Eeiliethya* I agree with @ButteringMyArse* - can’t claim furlough on dividend payments only income therefore those who do this to avoid paying the same levels of tax and NI as people who are employed could only claim on their declared earnings. Struggle to sympathise with them to be honest - you can’t have it all ways.[/quote]
I don't really sympathise either, but it was totally appropriate for someone in that situation to claim what they were entitled to and take other work to top them up.

It was 80% upto £2.5k per month. I had a few months on furlough and whilst I enjoyed every bloody minute of it, I took a huge hit in salary. I was really fortunate that it didn't make too much difference to me, but for some it could have been disastrous.

And the jobs people took on were typically in industries which were desperate for more staff - supermarket workers, delivery drivers, cleaners etc.

There was a handful of people who managed to pick up second jobs while furloughed from their main job.

Good for them, they did nothing wrong.

Am with you on this OP.

Key worker - worked my butt off - no time for a second job.
Next door neighbour got the max £2500 from furlough and then because he had spare time did another job. He earned more than he would normally!

As a tax payer I object to people being paid by me for doing nada and then earning more from a second job. I appreciate that those were the rules and thre is little I could do about it but it does stink

Also I was furloughed due to piss poor financial management - there was work for me to do - a lot of it - however our finances when down the drain thanks to a dodgy director (or two).

Why should i have to pay back money if i had taken on a plan B due a directors crappy behaviour

Well, I'm extremely grateful for the furloughed workers who came and worked at my hospital. YABU.

All those who got different jobs while furloughed, did you get taxed for that job as a second job, as you'd be getting taxed already on your furlough pay?

You get your allowance on your first job then taxed on 20% on your second job. Nobody is ever given an allowance on two jobs unless the tax code is split. I don't really understand what you mean.

@pointythings

People didn't choose to get furloughed.

For a lot of people, 80% of salary doesn't pay the bills.

There were shortages of workers in certain fields.

Good on those furloughed people who got off their arse and made themselves useful, I don't begrudge them a penny. I say this as a full time NHS worker (not front line) who worked throughout and often did 14 hours days at the start of the pandemic getting people redeployed. We were bloody grateful that people wanted to come back into HCA work.

YABVU and bitter.

This 100% Why should you even care? Just get on with your own life. You will never be happy looking at others.

I’d be more pissed off at the companies who claimed furlough for employees who were still working & generating income for the company,

I don't think they should have been allowed to get an additional income whilst being paid one from the public purse for not being able to work. But they were allowed so they cannot be asked to pay it back. It is legally theirs. It cannot be clawed back.

I think we need to cast our memories back a little.
The furlough - or Covid Job Rentention Scheme - had to be introduced very fast.
If I remember correctly, the legislation was passed the quickest in history.

It had to be passed quickly, because millions of people would have lost their jobs, then their homes etc and the benefit system would not have coped.

Because it had to be passed quickly, the government had to accept that some people would, legally, financially benefit from it.

In an ideal world, with all the time, they could have put in rules. For example, if your furlough payment is £2,500, you cannot get another job. Or employees would have to declare all their outgoings and then a decision could be made if they can get a second job.

But any rules would take months, if not years to sort out. They only had weeks.

So, there was a choice:
a) Pass the Furlough scheme quickly, allow those on furlough to work 2nd jobs unrelated to their main employment. The risk, a minority of people hugely benefiting from furlough and 2nd wage

Or

b) wait to pass the furlough scheme. Bottom out all the rules, I.e individual circumstances taken into account. Ensure only those in dire financial need receive furlough. The risk, no one gets any furlough support for months.

The reality is, with any scheme you introduce, some people will benefit, some people will remain the same and some will lose.

I was furloughed by 1 of my jobs, I got 400 a month from them. That barely covers my rent. So I worked with my other company. I always had 2 jobs even before the pandemic. I now however only have one job as the one who furloughed me decided to "end my contract" as I refused to work in retail or testing centres while pregnant.

Lockdowns were horrid for everyone, maybe everyone should just focus on themselves as opposed to playing the game os who had it hardest.

People working separate jobs probably facilitated me being able to shield and have grocery delivery’s. For which I am grateful.

It would have cost more administratively to monitor this. The small few who could top up furlough with a second job (in a pandemic there are few “new” jobs) won’t be a patch on those living on 80pc pay and absolute fear of redundancy.

Not everyone got furlough too it wasn’t by far just “key workers” still working as normal. My work furloughed our support staff (topping up so they got 100pc pay), so I got to continue working and also picking up the work of people on furlough. It stung but I know I wouldn’t trade places, knowing I had job security and they did not.

YANBU to feel hard done to. YABU for the race to the bottom.

@DoYouLikeOwls

All those who got different jobs while furloughed, did you get taxed for that job as a second job, as you'd be getting taxed already on your furlough pay?

You get your allowance on your first job then taxed on 20% on your second job. Nobody is ever given an allowance on two jobs unless the tax code is split. I don't really understand what you mean.

I think that's the answer I'm looking for, 2nd jobs don't have a tax code and charged at what I'd probably call emergency tax.

think we need to cast our memories back a little.
The furlough - or Covid Job Retention Scheme - had to be introduced very fast. And remember too that some people were "laid off" before the furlough pay was announced. When you are laid off, you get something like £20 a day for 5 days, then nothing at all until you've been laid off 6 months. Of course those people were going to try to find a second job!

Oh @Floogal if your really think this way why start a thread then never post ? Or do you like to start a thread knowing very well you will get lots of posts? Honestly get a life your not that daft.

I think that's the answer I'm looking for, 2nd jobs don't have a tax code and charged at what I'd probably call emergency tax.

Yes.

I felt lucky because I was self employed but given a contract. I was the only person at the company which was never not working. I felt lucky because they still kept me and I'm now on their PAYE. Everyones situation was different. Yes, it must have been lovely being furloughed on long hot Summer days but a lot of people faced uncertancys that must have been so worrying. Also, people did lose their jobs. I can't be bitter that some people had it better than others.

The government were actively encouraging people to take on extra work when on furlough to keep the country going.

There are a lot of small business owners that have done very nicely out of covid and lots of people who've had a years paid sabbatical.

I have mixed feelings.

My friend was furloughed on 80% of her salary. She applied for a retail job and she worked part time for a couple of months. They were desperate for staff and she needed to make up her salary.

There are also a lot of companies that didn't get any help that were classed as none essential like the events industry.

@bogoffmda

Am with you on this OP.

Key worker - worked my butt off - no time for a second job.
Next door neighbour got the max £2500 from furlough and then because he had spare time did another job. He earned more than he would normally!

As a tax payer I object to people being paid by me for doing nada and then earning more from a second job. I appreciate that those were the rules and thre is little I could do about it but it does stink

I do think it’s unfair people who didn’t benefit and had to continue to work and risk their health as keyworkers etc will be paying back the furlough costs.

I know of one company that furloughed its operational staff, but continued to pay large bonuses to directors, and to pay share dividends. Which stinks, IMO.

It hardly matters the money all gets recycled through the system, the extra spending will help some businesses survive.

Plus it was entirely legal and necessary for many to make their wages up from the 80%

So Yabu, get over it.

Around here lots the jobs people on furlough took where in healthcare settings, nursing homes and supermarkets. Do you think many secured nice, cushy, wfh jobs?

Yes exactly. What kind of jobs do you think these people took on? I'm fairly sure the majority weren't furloughed from a cushy WFH job and then started a second job in another. The majority will have found work doing keyworker roles in supermarkets, NHS and so on, which is a good thing surely?