to not understand why my mum does this

[suspiria777]

My mum, in her mid sixties, is kind of a nightmare when it comes to stirring/enabling among my siblings and dad (parents been separated for years). It seems like she tries to create drama/cause problems/look for reasons to get upset (or, alternatively, play "rescuer"), but it's most obvious, to me, with how she acts towards my sister.

My sister, early 30s, is anorexic. She has been anorexic for nearly 20 years. She's been hospitalised a few times, in and out of treatment, some suicide attempts, self harm etc. bla bla bla. She's had some periods of relative wellness and others of very acutely medically serious illness, but for the last five years or so she's been stable BUT still extremely disordered and extremely underweight. Her weight is around 38-40kg and she's average height . She is very good at pretending to be happy and "normal" in front of family and we haven't seen much of her since covid anyway but it's clear from her weight and various things going on in her life that she's not actually fine.

Anyway, my mum has a habit of approaching DSis and asking her if she wants XYZ item of clothing my mum has ordered online and doesn't like or doesn't quite fit into. Mum's a size 12 with a typical middle aged woman who has had several children shape. For the avoidance of doubt, DSis is smaller than the smallest sizes you can get on ASOS or anywhere, has no boobs, no butt, no hips, no belly. It's not like she asks me if I want them, even though I'm a size 8-10 and have a more similar style to my mum. TO BE CLEAR: I'm not aggrieved that my mum never offers me her unwanted items! I'm just perplexed as to why she KEEPS approaching my sister in this way as if to suggest they're almost the same size.

Whenever this happens, DSis will send me eye rolly screenshots of their text conversations, but she has also told me that it seems like mum is trying to upset her by implying she's bigger than she is -- and even though we can joke about it together ("typical mum" "got another bingo" type thing), I know that this stuff DOES upset her.

What the hell is mum thinking?

Other times she's given DSis birthday presents of diet books or other like, diet/food paraphernalia -- think food scales or spiraliser rather than a kitchenaid or a fondue set. She will also ALWAYS comment on what DSis is eating, if she is eating.

Obviously, after decades of this I don't expect she is going to change her ways. And DSis is "used to it" to some extent, and has her coping mechanisms -- to an extent. But it pisses ME off! And I know it does affect Sis too.

All i'm wondering is: why is she like this? What on earth is she thinking?
I'm not very good at imagining other people's motives, admittedly, but I'm totally clueless about what she's trying to achieve. Is there a charitable interpretation for her doing things seemingly deliberately to trigger my sister's eating disorder?

I was anorexic as a teen and recognise quite a lot of what you are posting. My mum used to do similar, but instead of buying me stuff (we were poor), she would frequently give me her hand me downs as I would ‘grow into them soon’: she was a size 20 and I was a size 4-6. She has always made comments about my weight (too fat even though I was underweight) etc. She also put me down in many other ways and it was only as an adult I fully recognised how abusive and toxic she was. My mental health dramatically improved when I went no contact with her. Unsurprisingly my sister also developed an eating disorder and we both self harmed when younger. My sister went no contact too a couple of years ago and is doing so much better without my mum around

Is your mother a positive influence in your lives in any way at all? Because it doesn't look like it. It seems to me the best thing would be for your sister to cut her off completely and for you to reduce contact.

People like your mother feed off the destruction they cause. She'll keep doing it, and the only way for your sister to protect herself is to cut her off, with the support of the rest of the family.

I don't know why, but i get the feeling your mum is almost acting out of a twisted curiosity.

As in she doesn't fully understand the cognitions behind AN (just recognises the behaviors) and pushes buttons to see what happens, if that makes sense? Your sister rightfully isn't responding according to how she is feeling, which is leaving your mum confused.
It feels a bit like when there is a sign saying "don't push the big red button" some people get an urge to push it just to see what happens.

Unfortunately it's your poor sisters mental health that is that big red button. She is rightfully concealing the pain and damage she is receiving, but your mum keeps pushing to see different outcomes.
To clarify I don't think your sister should explode on your mum etc, as mum will then take a position of victim.

The bla bla bla bit was really insensitive OP.

@seeingdouble2

The bla bla bla bit was really insensitive OP.

I wouldn't read too much into it - its a natural coping mechanism to distance yourself from and minimise the trauma of watching this behaviour and distress in a loved one. It doesn't mean it is minimised or feelings are invalidated infront of the sister, just how OP may cope with everything. She sounds like an amazing and supportive sister

@79andnotout

I had an eating disorder in my teens and twenties, fortunately completely recovered. My mother was definitely a factor. She sounds like yours. There's no way she would change her behaviour, she is always the victim, so the choice is distancing yourselves from her or healing yourself enough to completely laugh it off (I tried both and am comfortably in the latter these days). Even as a 70 something year old woman she's obsessed with her weight and every meal I have with her she says things like 'I can't believe you're going to eat all that' and sends photos to my siblings of me eating with '79 is stuffing her gullet again'. I am completely healthy and a normal weight, so all I do is eye roll and enjoy my slice of cake!

Why? Why why why do you have any contact with this woman Let alone go out and eat with her?

And my goodness
If my mother had sent me a photo like that of my recovered eating disorder sister
I would have rung her and said “do not EVER ever take a photo of X again and make a comment like that, let alone send it me”

@Ionlydomassiveones

For my sister, and the damage this so-called mother has done to her I would take the bitch to task. I wouldn’t care about her weeping and tantrumming either. She has to be made to see the consequences of her behaviour. The both of you then ought to go NC.

What would blowing up at her first accomplish? Slowly ghosting her seems like a more realistic option, and also doesn't require an unnecessary trip to see her to "announce" the decision. (We don't have a phone call relationship at all - just texts and sometimes in person.)

“Slowly ghosting” still means you’ll be getting together with her
Why do it to yourself?

@Marni83 to be honest it's just less grief. If one of us isn't talking to her, it makes life harder for the rest of my siblings (there are five of us). So it's a case of we all go no contact, or none of us do. My brothers aren't prepared to go no contact (they are the golden children), so i suck it up for everyone's benefit, but keep her at arms length most of the time.

She has no hold over me, but I feel responsibility for my siblings, some of whom are quite fragile.

[quote 79andnotout]@Marni83 to be honest it's just less grief. If one of us isn't talking to her, it makes life harder for the rest of my siblings (there are five of us). So it's a case of we all go no contact, or none of us do. My brothers aren't prepared to go no contact (they are the golden children), so i suck it up for everyone's benefit, but keep her at arms length most of the time.

She has no hold over me, but I feel responsibility for my siblings, some of whom are quite fragile.[/quote]
You sure as heck don’t need to go out for lunch or cake with her

Your mother is horrible.

I think you and your sister should plan to spend Christmas together, without your mother. You can then support each other in ignoring her inevitable weeping and guilt trips and drama. Focus on doing things that you enjoy and that make you feel good. And tell your mother exactly that-“Your behavior is not good for us, so for our mental health we are spending Christmas together without you.” Send her a clear, unambiguous message and then support each other in ignoring the storm that follows.

It's very hard to know whether she is deliberately abusive or she is a victim of a fucked approach to ideal standards of femininity and acting out on your sister. An awful lot of women are brought up with this bullshit and are hard-wired to think being thin is a cost of doing business. The latter is the kind interpretation. I don't claim to know. It's pretty ugly, whatever is driving it.

Would I do think is that your sister would probably benefit from going NC or low contact. You have mentioned yourself that you think your sister benefits from distance from her and I wonder whether she wouldn't benefit from "formalising" that.

It sounds like you have tried to engage with your mother on the toxic effects of this sort of behaviour and she either doesn't get it or won't go there. Your sister making a conscious decision to decouple herself would ram the point home. It will give your sister some protection from your mum's unpleasant diet rhetoric and it also will give you a space to try to get across to her that her attitude is bound up with your sister's condition.

@Marni83 - again, it's just easier. I wont go to her house, and she's an alcoholic so I wont meet her in a pub. A cafe is a good middle ground. I live 250 miles from her, so I just meet her in a cafe when I'm going to stay with my siblings who live in the same city. Duty done.

I am so relieved to hear that your sister doesn’t live with your mum!!! It sounds like you’re almost there with the going NC, anyway @suspiria777. Your mother’s manipulative bullshit hasn’t really worked on you while you were growing up. You left home and remain (healthily) detached. I am very sorry that she broke your sister, though. It’s not your fault, and I’m sad to say that there is probably very little you can do about your mum. You’re right. She won’t change. You have become closer to your sister, but you’re also not her therapist. Don’t feel guilty for not being as damaged. Don’t feel guilty for having survived your mother. Your sister may swing between being feeling connected to you because you can recognize how screwed up your mum is, and resenting you for escaping that treatment. (I am sure she had her own ways of torturing you.) You will have to understand this and know that this is not your fault.

@HarrietsChariot

Your mother caused the problem in the first place, she's just continuing the behaviour that gave your sister anorexia to begin with.

I didn't like the phrase "She's been hospitalised a few times, in and out of treatment, some suicide attempts, self harm etc. bla bla bla" though, it sounds like you are dismissing her struggles, suicide attempts and self harm as trivial or just attention seeking. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong because otherwise it sounds like you have her interests at heart.

Your poor sister. Your mother is the issue.

And I agree with HarrietsChariot - it is very bizarre to see “suicide attempts” and “blah blah” in the same sentence

She has obviously used the term bla bla bla as though the list goes on and there is a lot too it that she doesn't want to spell out. Its a phrase commonly used.
"Bla bla bla," we get the just of what she is getting at, but the point of the post is her mothers attitude towards her sister.... not the whole specifics and details of her sisters illness.
In fact by her saying that, it made me realise there is a loooong history and a lot going on that probably would take too long to write out.

Anyways, op, your mother is vile, abusive, inconsiderate, revolting and a downright twat.

[quote 79andnotout]@Marni83 - again, it's just easier. I wont go to her house, and she's an alcoholic so I wont meet her in a pub. A cafe is a good middle ground. I live 250 miles from her, so I just meet her in a cafe when I'm going to stay with my siblings who live in the same city. Duty done.[/quote]
5 siblings
And none of you have ver confronted her
You all keep the peace because one sibling wants you too

She sounds absolutely awful.

She, my sister, is lovely and smart and witty and funny and kind, and i hate that she hasn't been able to get better yet because she really, really deserves happiness.

How will you help her by “slowly ghosting” your mother.

You need to say she either stops immediately or if you get a whiff of it. No further contact. And talk to your sister about doing the same

@Gin4thewin4

She has obviously used the term bla bla bla as though the list goes on and there is a lot too it that she doesn't want to spell out. Its a phrase commonly used. "Bla bla bla," we get the just of what she is getting at, but the point of the post is her mothers attitude towards her sister.... not the whole specifics and details of her sisters illness. In fact by her saying that, it made me realise there is a loooong history and a lot going on that probably would take too long to write out.

Anyways, op, your mother is vile, abusive, inconsiderate, revolting and a downright twat.

I get all that, thanks; still feels weird when used with suicide attempts

All of you having a go because the OP hasn't stood up to/ had a big confrontation with her mum, then gone NC- if you're able to do these things, it's because you haven't had her upbringing. Not saying you haven't had a hard childhood, just that you haven't had hers. Give her some credit, show her some kindness. The fear of abusive parents can last a lifetime, and can show itself in lots of ways. The OP will have shown as much courage as any of you, just not necessarily in the same way.

@suspiria777 I agree with those who suggested some counselling for you. Look after yourself first, your sister is not your responsibility, and even if she was, you can't fix her (or your very messed up mum).

My mum used to do similar- I was a very underweight teen for various reasons and she’d often comment that I ‘had heavy thighs’ or was ‘becoming more hip- py’ and veil it as she was pleased as I needed to. She’d then tell me how much thinner she was as a teenager and how she wished she’d been a ‘curvy girl’ like me. Fir context I was an early 90s size 6. My mum is a narcissistic and unwell person and so is yours. I’m sorry.

I was born prematurely because my mum deliberately smoked even more heavily than usual to avoid eating and gaining baby weight, that she passed out while driving and had a very bad car accident. 1972, no seat belts or airbags, either. I was the first in Aus to survive being born at that size. Guesstimate 28-30wks, but who knows… I had long-term lung problems and when I went to breastfeed my own babies, I had DNA damage. No milk ducts, and a litany of other symptoms including chronic ocular migraines leading to scars all through my brain.
Of course growing up was a constant stream of criticism about weight, looks and achievement. She used to cook a giant pot of spaghetti bolognese for my DB and I to last for a week, but would boil the absolute shit out of the meat after frying it (to get the fat out.) It was tasteless and dry and had to last us for weeks at a time.
I remember my mother proudly bringing me black baby clothes for my (underweight) 11m DD1, and then as soon as her adorable, blonde ringlets were around her little face, telling me to “scrape it back” and “pull it up off her face” as these things were “more slimming.”
We moved to the other side of the planet and limited contact so her input was very short and sweet.
She was still giving unsolicited advice about weightloss and appearance on her deathbed. She died of lung cancer and at the end she was put on steroids which made her ferociously hungry. She had more meat on her bones in her coffin than she had had in my living memory, and the dress that she’d proudly starved herself for and demanded to be buried in, wouldn’t zip up. (The mortician didn’t find it funny like we did.)