to not understand why my mum does this

[suspiria777]

My mum, in her mid sixties, is kind of a nightmare when it comes to stirring/enabling among my siblings and dad (parents been separated for years). It seems like she tries to create drama/cause problems/look for reasons to get upset (or, alternatively, play "rescuer"), but it's most obvious, to me, with how she acts towards my sister.

My sister, early 30s, is anorexic. She has been anorexic for nearly 20 years. She's been hospitalised a few times, in and out of treatment, some suicide attempts, self harm etc. bla bla bla. She's had some periods of relative wellness and others of very acutely medically serious illness, but for the last five years or so she's been stable BUT still extremely disordered and extremely underweight. Her weight is around 38-40kg and she's average height . She is very good at pretending to be happy and "normal" in front of family and we haven't seen much of her since covid anyway but it's clear from her weight and various things going on in her life that she's not actually fine.

Anyway, my mum has a habit of approaching DSis and asking her if she wants XYZ item of clothing my mum has ordered online and doesn't like or doesn't quite fit into. Mum's a size 12 with a typical middle aged woman who has had several children shape. For the avoidance of doubt, DSis is smaller than the smallest sizes you can get on ASOS or anywhere, has no boobs, no butt, no hips, no belly. It's not like she asks me if I want them, even though I'm a size 8-10 and have a more similar style to my mum. TO BE CLEAR: I'm not aggrieved that my mum never offers me her unwanted items! I'm just perplexed as to why she KEEPS approaching my sister in this way as if to suggest they're almost the same size.

Whenever this happens, DSis will send me eye rolly screenshots of their text conversations, but she has also told me that it seems like mum is trying to upset her by implying she's bigger than she is -- and even though we can joke about it together ("typical mum" "got another bingo" type thing), I know that this stuff DOES upset her.

What the hell is mum thinking?

Other times she's given DSis birthday presents of diet books or other like, diet/food paraphernalia -- think food scales or spiraliser rather than a kitchenaid or a fondue set. She will also ALWAYS comment on what DSis is eating, if she is eating.

Obviously, after decades of this I don't expect she is going to change her ways. And DSis is "used to it" to some extent, and has her coping mechanisms -- to an extent. But it pisses ME off! And I know it does affect Sis too.

All i'm wondering is: why is she like this? What on earth is she thinking?
I'm not very good at imagining other people's motives, admittedly, but I'm totally clueless about what she's trying to achieve. Is there a charitable interpretation for her doing things seemingly deliberately to trigger my sister's eating disorder?

Could you openly and frankly discuss the impact that you believe your Mum may have with your sister? You are in a prime position to see their relationship and you know the history. You Mum being prickly and unapproachable must have impacted your childhoods massively, and you may be in the uncomfortable but ultimately best position to support your sister. I wish you all all the best. Your Mum sounds like an arse.

Also, some people feel better about themselves when they know other people feel worse. Your Mum may be creating this scenario because, like you have stated, she needs the drama of your sister's illness. God we humans are pretty messed up sometimes.

Well I suppose the plus side is that your sister's therapist hasn't had to dig too far to find the cause of the ED.

Her behaviour is beyond eye rolling, it's dangerous and she should genuinely be ashamed of herself.

Honestly I don’t think I could tip toe round my mother- I would call her out on it and just say ‘stop fucking with my sisters head- you know perfectly well she has an eating disorder, she is no where near your size now leave her alone and stop the bullshit’

@MissM2912

Honestly I don’t think I could tip toe round my mother- I would call her out on it and just say ‘stop fucking with my sisters head- you know perfectly well she has an eating disorder, she is no where near your size now leave her alone and stop the bullshit’

I would too. I did when my dad was no where near like the OPs mum to my twin sister who suffered with anorexia. He would say things like 'you can't be that bad because I've seen you eat' and that was enough for me to have words. I cannot fathom why you wouldn't say anything. It's family, you can be brutally honest with them surely? I could not allow my parent to treat my sister like that. Why don't you say anything OP? I'm sorry but by sitting back and watching, you are also hindering your sisters recovery and are indeed part of the issue.

You could put it down to thoughtlessness but with the severity of your sisters eating disorder I’d say that wasn’t really a good enough excuse because she should be thinking of her, I suspect she’s just a grade A bitch and perversely likes the drama of your sister being unwell.

My MIL is like your mother, my dad is a massive over eater and was hugely overweight, he managed to lose 6 stone on a strict calorie controlled diet and when MIL invited my parents over for dinner she stood over him insisting he had three desserts, pushing and pushing and not taking no for an answer, there’s nothing you could say to her for her to understand that she was wrong, she’s just stupid and thick.

Gosh that's a horrific thing for a mother to do. What sort of parent wilfully contributes to their child's suffering like that? Like pps I imagine the root of your sisters anorexia will be tied to your mothers behaviour during your formative years. Horrible woman. She may not have the self awareness to be doing this "on purpose" she's most likely emotionally stunted but I would absolutely call this out again and again and tell her how wrong it is. Shame on her.

This is so so sad. Your Mum sounds abusive and I think it would be in your sisters best interest to cut ties with her all together. I have no idea why she would behave like this other than to say she is abusive and feels she has control over her?

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel a mother can be to her own daughter. My mum would do things like this but the opposite as in knowing full well she was a 12 and I'm an 18.

Yes mum let squeeze my fat rolls in to your clothes so I look like a complete tit!!

I think this kind of abuse is one of the most difficult to recover from because it’s very hard to identify it as abuse when you’re in the dynamic.

We’re on the outside and it’s jaw droppingly awful to read. But when you’re caught up in a family dynamic, it’s hard not to respond with “yes, but..” or “she mustn’t realise…” and make excuses. In fact your op is all about searching for a benign explanation.

It’s hard to wrap your head around the the kind, maternal aspects of choosing a gift, and remembering a birthday, and going to the trouble of sending something being a toxic poisoned apple.

Her behaviour is utterly vile.

And I’m really sorry Op because it can’t be an easy read for you either.

So your sister has had anorexia since she was around age 10? Sounds like your mum has been a huge negative influence on her attitude to appearance, food, health, eating... Maybe they should be more distant.

@daisyjgrey

Well I suppose the plus side is that your sister's therapist hasn't had to dig too far to find the cause of the ED.

Her behaviour is beyond eye rolling, it's dangerous and she should genuinely be ashamed of herself.

This is sadly very funny but true! Absolutely spot on that the anorexia has been caused and sustained by your mother.

I think I'd have snapped at your mother long ago. Buying someone with anorexia a bloody diet book. I wouldn't have cared how difficult she is , I'd have read her the riot act and would have binned the book right in front of her. That is highly highly abusive and I'm pretty sure your sister doesn't take it all in her stride, it probably kills her when your mother does this but she says nothing. Please op stand up for your sister. Someone should be defending her. I don't even know your sister and I'd let rip at your mother for it.

This is one of the many many reasons why I have gone NC with my own mother. She was a size 20+ and would try and off load clothes onto me (size 8) and give me lots of unwarranted diet advice. I had to stop seeing her during my pregnancies as she would harshly mention the weight gain.

She was also a cow about my weight and eating habits anytime I saw her as a child, along with other family members.
When I was still in contact with her, not only would I pull her up about it but others would as well but she would laugh it all off and come out with crap that she was just joking.

My mh and destructive behaviours have improved a lot since I told her what I thought of her and to fuck off out of my life. But after decades of tolerating it, it has resulted in a lot of damage to me mentally and physically. After my first suicide attempt at 15 she told everyone that I was just doing it for attention.

My mum, if you can call her that is a psychopath and has one mission in life to destroy everyone she comes into contact with. But of course, it's never her fault.

The presents on their own would make me think your mum is well meaning (given your sister's interest in dieting) but dim to the point of being dangerous.

In context, it sounds very dark.

The fact that you can't and haven't considered just asking her makes me think she's probably a narcissist who can't be questioned. Given the subject, I'd add malign to that. The dark triad springs to mind.

Your sister is not coping with her if she's not fine. I think you should both cut her off and see how your sister fares.

OP your mum’s behaviour really is not on

Unfortunately I know someone like this. They think it’s subtle behaviour too but it’s so poorly executed every time.

All you can do is disengage but she takes it to your sister so she can’t escape.

@thelegohooverer

I think this kind of abuse is one of the most difficult to recover from because it’s very hard to identify it as abuse when you’re in the dynamic.

We’re on the outside and it’s jaw droppingly awful to read. But when you’re caught up in a family dynamic, it’s hard not to respond with “yes, but..” or “she mustn’t realise…” and make excuses. In fact your op is all about searching for a benign explanation.

It’s hard to wrap your head around the the kind, maternal aspects of choosing a gift, and remembering a birthday, and going to the trouble of sending something being a toxic poisoned apple.

Her behaviour is utterly vile.

And I’m really sorry Op because it can’t be an easy read for you either.

This really resonates,

I agree with all the other posters saying my mum is a bitch, too.

I have tried to mention it to her in the past -- hence my explanation of her reacting to thing as criticism even when they're meant with curiosity. It's still so hard for me to imagine she might be being deliberately hurtful (but then again, is anyone that oblivious?!?!)

I only see my mum maybe a handful of times a year. Covid has been a blessing in that regard -- I know my Sis also found it a huge relief not to be expected to (or at least to have an excuse for not) return home for a week at Christmas last year. Christmas is... not fun.

My mum is very good at making you feel guilty and sorry for her.

@rattlemehearties

So your sister has had anorexia since she was around age 10? Sounds like your mum has been a huge negative influence on her attitude to appearance, food, health, eating... Maybe they should be more distant.

13, but yeah. My dad and their terrible relationship also played a part, and Sis had some horrible stuff happen to her, too, so it isn't simply attributable to my mum on her own, but whereas my dad is just straightforwardly selfish and disengaged, my mum continues to act like she is being genuinely loving and caring and we're too horrible/ungrateful to see it and/or ganging up on her.

Staying as far away from your toxic and manipulative mother seems to be the very best option for your siste -, and for you too, come to that.

She's truly awful. I know that people mention narcissism on here a lot, but in this case I think it's likely that your mother is a narcissist.

OP I work with children with complex psychological disorders and I genuinely think your mother is severely abusing your sister and the root of her illness will lie with emotional abuse. Please force your mother to stop this emotional abuse by shaming her if necessary. Protect your sister, her illness is not her fault and as she ages she will experience severe health issues ie osteoporosis from her mental illness and need support.

In your shoes I would protect my sister in any way I could.

Your description of your mother describes a very typical mother of an anorexic. When I had my therapy for it, the counsellor knew her behaviour before I'd even fully described it. Making children walk on eggshells, never knowing if you'll meet with their approval or provoke anger and disappointment... it's a classic cause of the ED behaviour: needing to be better, feeling guilty for your existence etc., leading to self harm, suicidal feelings.

My mother is in her 70s and knowing my 30 year struggle, still looks long and hard at my thighs as though to size me up if there's any talk of what I've eaten or not eaten. Her behaviour is never allowed to be mentioned because nobody dares provoke her anger. It's chilling. I'm so sorry that your sister has to suffer this too. I wish I knew the answer.

You need to ask her "what are you doing?" in a serious tone with a head tilt when she does this.
Every time.
Watch her stutter and stammer and try to think of a reason she is abusing her recovering anorexic daughter.
That should sort it.

Your sister is lucky to have you. Could she say her therapists says it a trigger when people offer her clothes or food related gifts?

Trying to see it from a different perspective but could it possibly be a genuine attempt to help her, if not a little misguided? Diet books may be an attempt to get her to cook low fat food, which is obviously better than nothing. Same with kitchen gadgets, to try and get her to cook something. Nice clothes could be used to encourage her to put on weight to fit into them?

Obviously you know your mum best though. If you think she's abusive then you're probably right.