This Pen Farthing guy

[TheGenealogist]

The bloke with the animal shelter in Kabul.

Refusing to leave unless he can take ALL of his 60 odd staff and ALL of his 200+ cats and dogs with him. Expecting the government to make special rules for him and his friends.

Getting people out - understandable. The Taliban aren't going to look kindly on people who have translated for the military, or "collaborated" in other ways. But staff at an animal shelter?

And as for the refusing to leave without the animals and making this all out to be the UK government's fault? For not falling over themselves to arrange transport for a bunch of ownerless animals nobody wants when there are human beings in fear of their lives?

What is this guy playing at?

@FlipFlopsButNoSun

I don't think you've got your facts right OP.

Pen is an amazing man. He has so much loyalty to his staff. He has worked tirelessly to ensure they all got visas and documents and the government were able to accept them for travel our of Afghanistan. He has risked his Life to ensure none of his staff are left behind to face death.

He has arranged a private plane to accommodate him and the staff. This means the space they would otherwise take up on a government military plane is freed up for others. The animals are going in the cargo hold where people can't go, so they are not taking space from anyone.

Furthermore, Pen has space on his plane and has offered those spaces to anyone the government needs to fly home.

He is incredible and I wish him all the very best. If all his staff land safely in the UK it is largely down to him.

If it was left to the government, all the animals would have died, and a large majority of Pen's staff would have been shot or killed by Taliban.

Amazing man. I bet you wouldn't have his backbone OP. I know I wouldn't have had the courage to do what he's been doing. Incredible.

Would make an amazing film. Hope one is made one day so people like the OP can see exactly how brave, selfless and inspiring this man has been.

I totally agree. It would be a fantastic film. Well done Pen. Reading all that's going on in Afghanistan is terrible. Nice to have a good news story, even if many will still suffer. Well done that man.

@PicsInRed

I thought the issue was people in the hold wouldn't be secured? Animals would be in cages / crates, but people would be loose.

I should think so. An insecure load is a tipping disaster waiting to happen to a truck, let alone a jet nose up taking off.

People will be just loose

If people are told to sit the fuck still or the plane will struggle.. you don't think they will do so?!

Packed trucks .... Like the images of vehicles rammed getting soldiers or civilians out of war zones?

If the animals are your thing then that's aok. I get it

Just please be honest like pp was about the feelings rather than this strange stuff about how in the direst of emergencies it's not on to get as many people out as possible even if it's risky.

I thought the issue was people in the hold wouldn't be secured? Animals would be in cages / crates, but people would be loose.

That’s perfectly true however if the Taliban are over the wall I think we will find out how desperate things are getting if (when? ) people try to get out in the holds of any civilian aircraft.

So far the vast majority of evacuees have flown out in military transport types (C-17s, A400s, C-130s) and they are completely unlike civil airlines don’t have an underfloor hold - the whole hull is one big hold certified and equipped for passenger carriage so the military don’t need to consider this/the option hasn’t been considered by them.

I feel really conflicted about this. On one hand, I don't think there is anything to suggest that PF's motives are anything but honourable - he is trying to get the people and animals he cares about to safety by pulling every string available to him. I can understand that and admire the efforts he has gone to. Part of me thinks there is always room in the world for a little more kindness, and everyone should focus on making their own positive contribution rather than criticising someone else's efforts as not being worthy enough.

On the other hand, this is a desperate situation and I find it difficult to believe that his proposal doesn't come at the expense of anyone else. I understand that it is an additional plane with room in the cargo hold but it is still additional logistics at the airport, weight on the plane, takeoff slot, paperwork, ministers' time, media coverage at a time when there is so much going on. And although I am lifelong animal lover and vegetarian, I cannot justify prioritising animals' lives over human lives in this scenario (not least because I cannot see that dogs and cats are as much threatened by the Taliban as women, interpreters etc.).

I suppose I mainly feel sad to see the publicity that this is getting - that of all the desperately sad stories of people at risk, this is the one which the media has picked up and run with and which British people seem to be getting behind (just judging from the level of updates/shares I'm seeing on my social media). I am mostly proud to be part of an animal loving country, but it makes me sad to see this reaction in a country that is so hostile to refugees/immigration - we have become so numb to stories of Afghan suffering that we need a cuddly animal to trigger our compassion.

Classica nailed it.

@Shanghaisprize

they'll have to get themselves across borders without support

Yes, that's what I've heard too. I imagine very through will get through the Taliban roadblocks alive though. That's the reality.

I’m thinking that this is a landlocked country and there is no bloody way that every square inch of border could be monitored at any one time. I hope. The difficulty will be if women aren’t supposed to be in the streets, but knowing the land should help.

There are migrants /refugees flooding over the borders already. The problem being that there isn’t much anywhere for them either.

Ijwmtb

Well said, I think there have been, perhaps still are, two sides to this story.

I hope he and those in his care do get out OK but I also do hope after the dust has settled some consideration is given to some of the things that were said/posted in various places by him and some of his supporters.

@NiceGerbil

Drop down oxygen. Don't tell me. No snacks?

If cats and dogs don't die then nor will humans.

H& S is out the window.

When people were fleeing in other conflicts. Crammed into lorries, going through tunnels, overloading boats. It has been seen as amazing to get as many people out as possible at whatever risk.

I would send my 2 DDs out in the hold, with whichever armed forces, and know I might never see them again to get them the fuck out of there.

I was thinking this. If the choice was to risk being in the hold of an aircraft or stay in Afghanistan, I think I know which one I’d choose. Refugees put their lives in their hands every day trying to criss seas in Inflatable boats. I’m pretty sure last week there was video footage of Afghans trying to hold onto the outside of planes as they took off as they were so desperate to flee. I’d Quite happily be put in a cage for a few hours to secure my freedom.

If people are told to sit the fuck still or the plane will struggle.. you don't think they will do so?!

The issue would be people sliding backwards on takeoff, putting too much weight to the rear.

If enough people and weight end up at the back on takeoff, then the nose won't come back down again. There was a crash like this is NZ (ex ag plane taking skydivers) where the plane nosed up on takeoff, lost control and crashed.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Fox_Glacier_FU-24_crash

It's a shame because I agree that it would be best to fill the hold with women and children, but that's not sadly possible in its present configuration (live "cargo" would need to be crated to be secured).

@PicsInRed

If people are told to sit the fuck still or the plane will struggle.. you don't think they will do so?!

The issue would be people sliding backwards on takeoff, putting too much weight to the rear.

If enough people and weight end up at the back on takeoff, then the nose won't come back down again. There was a crash like this is NZ (ex ag plane taking skydivers) where the plane nosed up on takeoff, lost control and crashed.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Fox_Glacier_FU-24_crash

It's a shame because I agree that it would be best to fill the hold with women and children, but that's not sadly possible in its present configuration (live "cargo" would need to be crated to be secured).

Might be an issue but there are anchoring points on cargo hold floors and sometimes struts on the hold wall that might provide a handhold/anchor point.

You are right about the skydiving accident but generally passenger weight shift is a bigger problem on small aircraft than big aircraft because on a small aircraft of the passenger weight is a much bigger proportion of the aircraft mass … but yes, it’s best avoided.

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

I like most dogs and cats over quite a lot of people. A lot of humans are actually quite abhorrent

Absolutely. So many horrible vile people in the world. It’s people killing people in Afghanistan. Afghan people are murdering and torturing other Afghan people. The taliban aren’t some alien race that’s landed from another planet, the taliban are Afghan people.

Are these cats and dogs behaving like that? No. They deserve to be rescued. Slots for 500 planes vs slots for 501 planes isn’t going to make the slightest difference so stop with the ‘it’s the number of plane slots’ nonsense.

The taleban aren't some alien race. No. Afghan people killing other Afghan people.. ok. With a massive amount of history/ interference from other countries.

Both the taleban and Afghan people are human beings. They are our species. Not an alien species. The same as you and me.

Over the world people behave horrifically to other people all the time and always have. Also, loads of humans have pushed for compassion, have shown massive bravery to help others.

To look and say well the taleban aren't a different species to other Afghan people is missing a step. They aren't a different species to any other humans.

I get that humans are probably too successful and enormously destructive and capable of terrible things. I don't disagree.

But we're all human, those actions are human actions.

And to position two other types of mammal- canines and felines- even domesticated ones. As innocents while not thinking the same of any humans is a bit strange.

Dogs even domesticated ones if left to their own devices form packs. That can be very dangerous.
Cats even little kitty is a highly successful predator.

Both will kill without thinking. Cats toy with prey. Animals that hunt in packs are very formidable.

I do get why people feel the way they do.

What I don't get is. I mean really?

Is it baffling that people save their children before their pet?
That many people hearing about atrocities against babies and children having a more visceral reaction than eg mosquitoes that carry malaria being targeted?

Is it a result of so many people and so many terrible things it's just overwhelming and you can't do anything so focusing on companion animals is somehow easier?

Then tether the people with whatever tethers the crates and luggage. There must be something to stop them sliding.

In the end it's all academic.

How the fuck is he going to get this convoy through the taleban and into the airport in the first place?

Has he said?

And yes I'd happily have my DDs in crates in the hold if it meant them getting out.

They can fly somewhere friendly and make some more suitable arrangements. The priority is getting as many out as possible.

Random guess. A crate that would hold a large dog would hold a child and a bunch of their younger siblings I'd guess. Not ideal obviously but better than leaving them behind.

Toddlers and babies have been passed over the fence. To random soldiers. To go somewhere just anywhere. Parents did that knowing they'll probably never see them again or know what happened.

This is a desperate desperate situation.

@PicsInRed

If people are told to sit the fuck still or the plane will struggle.. you don't think they will do so?!

The issue would be people sliding backwards on takeoff, putting too much weight to the rear.

If enough people and weight end up at the back on takeoff, then the nose won't come back down again. There was a crash like this is NZ (ex ag plane taking skydivers) where the plane nosed up on takeoff, lost control and crashed.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Fox_Glacier_FU-24_crash

It's a shame because I agree that it would be best to fill the hold with women and children, but that's not sadly possible in its present configuration (live "cargo" would need to be crated to be secured).

More pertinent is flight 102 at Bagram in 2013. The flight was evacuating NZ forces.

Graphic Warning

I mean the plane can land somewhere friendly to minimise the time in the hold.

In the end. This is a shitshow and the lives of those there will be hell.

I do understand those who put the animals first. I just don't like it when there's an insistence it's not about that

Toddlers and babies have been passed over the fence. To random soldiers. To go somewhere just anywhere. Parents did that knowing they'll probably never see them again or know what happened.

I'm fairly confident that those children that this happened to were reunited with parents and not just sent off to a new life alone. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am

@snowballer

Toddlers and babies have been passed over the fence. To random soldiers. To go somewhere just anywhere. Parents did that knowing they'll probably never see them again or know what happened.

I'm fairly confident that those children that this happened to were reunited with parents and not just sent off to a new life alone. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am

How? It's only in the last couple days.

suppose I mainly feel sad to see the publicity that this is getting - that of all the desperately sad stories of people at risk, this is the one which the media has picked up and run with and which British people seem to be getting behind (just judging from the level of updates/shares I'm seeing on my social media). I am mostly proud to be part of an animal loving country, but it makes me sad to see this reaction in a country that is so hostile to refugees/immigration - we have become so numb to stories of Afghan suffering that we need a cuddly animal to trigger our compassion.

I know what you mean. I don't think Pen Farthing has stolen those column inches, rolling "time is running out" news updates and charity dollars in exchange for cutesy pictures from deserving Afghan women and children though. I think he has stolen limelight that would have gone to a single TB ridden bloody alpaca. Which kind of proves your point.

How are their parents going to get out?

Those who have done this will be at huge risk of execution.

How and when are these lovely reunions going to happen exactly ...?

Cutesy pictures of desperate women and children?

Eh??!!

It's true though that the alpaca has caused more outrage action news etc than some horrific stuff that's gone on here recently been reported.

What's the cutesy pics thing about though?

There isn't an issue with space on planes. That's not what is stopping people from leaving, on Sky News you can see a photo of a plane leaving with 95% of seats empty.

So people don't need to take the place of animals in the hold, it's a moot point.

What's preventing people from leaving is not having paperwork to be processed, not being able to reach the airport, queues to be processed, etc.

So there is no dogs and cats vs. people debate.