This Pen Farthing guy

[TheGenealogist]

The bloke with the animal shelter in Kabul.

Refusing to leave unless he can take ALL of his 60 odd staff and ALL of his 200+ cats and dogs with him. Expecting the government to make special rules for him and his friends.

Getting people out - understandable. The Taliban aren't going to look kindly on people who have translated for the military, or "collaborated" in other ways. But staff at an animal shelter?

And as for the refusing to leave without the animals and making this all out to be the UK government's fault? For not falling over themselves to arrange transport for a bunch of ownerless animals nobody wants when there are human beings in fear of their lives?

What is this guy playing at?

FWIW as aside, the GPS being off doesn’t aircraft appearing on Flightradar, it can however effect the accuracy of the aircraft’s displayed position on the map.

There are significantly more planes going into and out of Kabul than appear on flight radar. Not sure if that is what you mean, but wanted to point that out also. Whatever enables the tracking on flight radar can be switched on and off by the aircraft operators I presume.

@Shanghaisprize

I hope so. He has not been able to get Pen on this week at all so far. Hoping for a good announcement tonight

I so desperately hope this is true. I'm usually a bit of a misanthropist and it takes a lot to impress me but I think Pen is bloody amazing for all he has done and is doing. The world needs a lot more people like him, ones who actually do and achieve things rather than those who just sit around, watch and judge. People with the substance, loyalty and compassion he has shown in all this.

Very much agree.

It is humanity. It is civilised, real action. As 'great' philosophers and scientists have said before... You can judge a society (or a person) by the way it treats its animals. This incident shows how far we have really come as a nation.

@MadameMinimes

Crikey, this thread is depressing.

This man, his staff, and the Afghans who have worked with us during the war have all been badly let down by the government and our allies. They have made an utter balls-up of the withdrawal. He has done everything in his power to get his staff to safety and has offered 100 additional slots on the plane he has arranged and some people think he’s doing something wrong.

I can’t believe that there are seriously people questioning his staff being able to get to safety. Wtf is wrong with people who, on hearing about someone trying to get their staff out, think “Hmmm… what makes him think his staff are so special”. God only knows what mumsnet would have said about Oskar Schindler. “Who does he think he is, paying bribes to keep his staff safe when other people are dying. He’s probably just hoping someone will make an Oscar-bait movie about him with Humphrey Bogart one day.”

A lot of the people waiting at the airport are stuck not because there aren’t enough slots, but because the authorities can’t process their paperwork quickly enough. We have filled space in planes with cargo, including a car, supposedly because the paperwork for a full plane of human beings couldn’t be processed in time. He had all of the paperwork in place for his staff. If people are left to die in Afghanistan then it won’t be the fault of this man, who was doing the best he could for a group of humans and animals that he had responsibility for.

This is a good post. The devil really is in the detail here and perhaps this is what all the wrangling and u-turns from government have been about.

I agree about saving humans before dogs and cats, and not slowing down access to the airport/processing for vulnerable people or taking up military time and resources - most definitely.

But, if he can guarantee that he can process/load the animals in the hold within the same slot it takes to process the human cargo onto the plane (which might end up boarding a full 300 people in the same departure slot as a half-full 600 seat military plane) and has enough goodwill/bribes for the taliban to be escorted through without slowing down the main processing queues, his staff are vulnerable women, and he has a plan for the animals… I don’t see why he shouldn’t proceed.

If he’s expecting special treatment and queue jumping at the expense of extremely vulnerable people then that is not on.

I am a vet and have general misgivings about bringing in poorly-socialised rescue animals from hotter climates, potentially introducing non-endemic diseases such as leishmaniasis to the U.K. (most controls apply only to rabies and treatment for ticks and tapeworm) but I respect the animal welfare work this charity has done for many years so trust that they know what they are doing.

@JaniieJones

'Honestly, I’m sick of the drama of some people. We aren’t talking about a load of dogs sitting in first class of a plane, whilst babies starve.'

Oh poor you, sick of the drama! .

If he'd brought 10 dogs back that'd be bad enough but 200 fgs. Kabul will have stray dogs long after he has gone. This is all a self serving dangerous stunt. Surely, surely getting his 68 staff out safely should have been his priority without the circus of loads of dog and cat crates.

All the attention he has generated with his publicity and demands for a plane for his pets can't be good in that volatile situation. If the taliban hadn't heard much about him before, they have now.

Maybe he and his staff don’t want to leave the dogs behind? Maybe they care about the dogs? I don’t understand how this is beyond your comprehension.

Like I said, I don’t see the problem with putting the animals in the hold.

Bottom line.

The taleban have taken the country.
They control access to the airport and area turning away individuals with full paperwork.
The scene around the airport is mayhem.
Biden said (fuck knows why) 10 days and the taleban have said ok. That's that. No more evacuation.
The taleban are heavily armed and ruthless.
Getting some kind of convoy with all the staff and the animals into the airport is... I don't see how it could happen.
No one will be sending aircraft in once the time is up. They'll be shot down or attacked on the ground.
The situation is fucked.
A lot of people will be executed, tortured. Families with no man will starve.
Girls will no longer be educated.
Women and girls will be chattel. Less than animals.
Men will have massively strict rules imposed on them as well.
Public floggings, amputations if thought to be not 100% adhering.

Cats and dogs will be cats and dogs. As with humans. We are all successful species. The taleban aren't going to be out executing them though.

'Maybe he and his staff don’t want to leave the dogs behind? Maybe they care about the dogs? I don’t understand how this is beyond your comprehension.

Like I said, I don’t see the problem with putting the animals in the hold.'

Put humans in the hold. Children. Those who will be executed. Etc

While it's fair enough to get his staff out, what's it going to look like to all the afghans getting left behind to see a load of dogs given a flight while they get left behind?

Sounds like a good way to turn any residual goodwill to the west away. The Taliban will capitalize on this "see the west value you less than dogs"

@Audit

There are significantly more planes going into and out of Kabul than appear on flight radar. Not sure if that is what you mean, but wanted to point that out also. Whatever enables the tracking on flight radar can be switched on and off by the aircraft operators I presume.

Yep, I’m aware of all that.

In simple terms the system you would need to turn off to stop display on Flight Radar is not GOD, it’s the ADS/transponder system, and yes you presume correctly, it can be turned off from the flight deck by the Flight Crew….

Not GPS !!!!!

@NiceGerbil

'Maybe he and his staff don’t want to leave the dogs behind? Maybe they care about the dogs? I don’t understand how this is beyond your comprehension.

Like I said, I don’t see the problem with putting the animals in the hold.'

Put humans in the hold. Children. Those who will be executed. Etc

Is it possible for humans to travel in the hold? I’m not sure that the MoD would authorise this.

I haven't read this whole thread. I've posted a fair bit on the other earlier thread on this, over in chat. That thread's worth a read if you haven't seen it (I think it's called 'One small way to help Afghanistan')
Though many of the comments were positive, some posts were almost painfully difficult to read. So, I was nervous when I saw this thread! I stayed away for hours, but feel compelled to comment. I'm both a passionate animal lover, and passionate about human rights. So, I am clinging to hope that PF, the Nowzad team, animals, and other innocent Afghans, especially children, who can get on the flight, will be safely out of Afghanistan soon. I hope that for all those poor desperate souls needing to get out of Kabul asap.
I don't understand how anyone can not be overflowing with compassion for anyone caught up in the horror of Kabul airport, or seeking to get there.
I think Paul Farthing is clearly a truly good and honourable person. The way he's looked out for his staff and the animals tells me all I need to know.
We're here, in the peace and safety of the UK. So I think any judgement or criticism of someone in the midst of the horror, doing his best to save lives, seems wholly inappropriate.
Nothing but love, support and goodwill from me...

And in all honesty.

This is a charter flight on a standard passenger airline? Who is going to pilot etc? I mean it's a hugely risky situation. The plane company/ pilot etc will not be insured for that sort of stuff.

Anyone know who has agreed to send a passenger plane out there?

And if passenger planes can go no probs then wouldn't they be utilised? It's all military aircraft. There's a reason for that.

And thinking more. Military aircraft don't have mod cons. They are stripped back. They need as much fuel efficiency as possible. This stuff about there will be seats to take others. Seats?

This isn't Jet2 fgs.

IF they can get commercial craft in there and IF there are companies pilots etc prepared to do it and insured etc. Then the obvious thing to do is strip the thing. Seats Aircon most of the toilets. Galleys etc. Gone. As big a space as possible to take as many as possible. Including the hold. Just get as many people out as possible.

Given its going to be rammed etc then can ferry to a safe airport and get it more safe etc then.

But right now any space at all should be used to remove people. Or even just the babies and children that are being passed over the razor wire fence to soldiers who shouldn't but cant bring themselves to say no.

But and I mean I've said this a few times. It's al not a conversation where I think there's a middle ground.

@FloFloFloFloFlo

Think this has been discussed a few times upthread.

Yes it is physically possible (holds are pressurized and heated to some degree), but there is zero safety equipment -drop down oxygen restraints etc, no emergency exit, and there is usually be no provision to open the cargo door from inside, so no escape option….

So no, MOD aren’t going to authorize it..

It's possible for humans to travel in all sorts of ways if they are desperate to get out. And the risk of not getting out is enormous.

It has happened in dire circs through history.

@WanderingFruitWonderer 👏👏👏 I'm with you 100%

I like most dogs and cats over quite a lot of people. A lot of humans are actually quite abhorrent

Absolutely. So many horrible vile people in the world. It’s people killing people in Afghanistan. Afghan people are murdering and torturing other Afghan people. The taliban aren’t some alien race that’s landed from another planet, the taliban are Afghan people.

Are these cats and dogs behaving like that? No. They deserve to be rescued. Slots for 500 planes vs slots for 501 planes isn’t going to make the slightest difference so stop with the ‘it’s the number of plane slots’ nonsense.

@NiceGerbil

This is a charter flight on a standard passenger airline? Who is going to pilot etc? I mean it's a hugely risky situation. The plane company/ pilot etc

As Audit pointed out upthread there is a local airline called Kam Air that has been operating aircraft, including A340s, which are a somewhat dated but functional long haul airliner, into and out of Kabul on and off over the last few days.

Maybe they would do it, just maybe another operator from out of the area might be prepared to do it for a suitable fee.

Drop down oxygen. Don't tell me. No snacks?

If cats and dogs don't die then nor will humans.

H& S is out the window.

When people were fleeing in other conflicts. Crammed into lorries, going through tunnels, overloading boats. It has been seen as amazing to get as many people out as possible at whatever risk.

I would send my 2 DDs out in the hold, with whichever armed forces, and know I might never see them again to get them the fuck out of there.

@NiceGerbil

Drop down oxygen. Don't tell me. No snacks?

If cats and dogs don't die then nor will humans.

H& S is out the window.

When people were fleeing in other conflicts. Crammed into lorries, going through tunnels, overloading boats. It has been seen as amazing to get as many people out as possible at whatever risk.

I would send my 2 DDs out in the hold, with whichever armed forces, and know I might never see them again to get them the fuck out of there.

I thought the issue was people in the hold wouldn't be secured? Animals would be in cages / crates, but people would be loose.

@NiceGerbil

Drop down oxygen. Don't tell me. No snacks?

If cats and dogs don't die then nor will humans.

H& S is out the window.

When people were fleeing in other conflicts. Crammed into lorries, going through tunnels, overloading boats. It has been seen as amazing to get as many people out as possible at whatever risk.

I would send my 2 DDs out in the hold, with whichever armed forces, and know I might never see them again to get them the fuck out of there.

No argument from me on that.

I thought the issue was people in the hold wouldn't be secured? Animals would be in cages / crates, but people would be loose.

I should think so. An insecure load is a tipping disaster waiting to happen to a truck, let alone a jet nose up taking off.

@Peacrock

Good to know there's a lot of vegans on this thread though that think of all animals as equal to humans, save the planet and all that.

It’s not even about whether they’re equal or not.

It’s about the fact that in this case there is absolutely no reason not to rescue these animals and we have plenty of resources to do so. As well as the people.

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

I like most dogs and cats over quite a lot of people. A lot of humans are actually quite abhorrent

Absolutely. So many horrible vile people in the world. It’s people killing people in Afghanistan. Afghan people are murdering and torturing other Afghan people. The taliban aren’t some alien race that’s landed from another planet, the taliban are Afghan people.

Are these cats and dogs behaving like that? No. They deserve to be rescued. Slots for 500 planes vs slots for 501 planes isn’t going to make the slightest difference so stop with the ‘it’s the number of plane slots’ nonsense.

Erm.

Cats are seriously efficient predators.
Dogs are descended from wolves. Strays form packs that can be very dangerous.

Meanwhile loads of people stuck there who are perfectly nice and kind etc will be subjected to fuck only knows what.

Cats and dogs and humans are all very successful. For a reason.

We're all just mammals doing our thing.

Human babies and children are far more vulnerable than cat and dog offspring.

And the taleban afaik aren't going to be executing cats and dogs that are out by themselves or not wearing the right clothes etc etc

Yep don't get it l.

Never going to agree I think.

It is what it is

Sorry, I can't rtft at the moment, but I just wanted to say (not that you will care about what I think!) that I am disappointed in your view of animals that are not of the human variety. I think that I read a while ago that he said he would kill the animals in his care rather than let the Taliban get their hands on them, or that they are left out on the streets to die a slow and painful death, from hunger and other causes. I agree with him. Cats and particularly dogs, are not just sentient beings, they have, through the actions of human beings over thousands of years, become domesticated, and need not just the physical care of human beings, but the mental love and interaction from their humans.

I thought the issue was people in the hold wouldn't be secured? Animals would be in cages / crates, but people would be loose

Not just that. No one can check on them or help if in trouble once the plane has taken off.
The animals will be in secure crates. Animals are shipped this way all the time.