to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

[54321nought]

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

It’s like
Banning cycles because oil is used to lubricate the chain.

Banning wind farms, because, yes oil is also used to refine the parts and lubricate the blades.

Banning all gel cap pharmaceuticals because oil is used to make the gel cap.

Banning all disposable gloves and masks used in medical settings....because oil is used in these items.

I could go on, but have to get back to work...

Mining for fossil fuels doesn’t necessarily mean we are going to burn all of them and add to the CO2. They’re used in so many necessary industries and objects. So to object to new oil mines is just being plain biased and prejudiced in your thoughts about oil.

@Darker

Why is XR not seen to target them?

XR is a global organisation. XR in the UK holds the UK to account.

Yes, that's all very well but what have XR actually achieved so far that is positive? I asked this several pages back and the supporters have mithered on other things instead of answering a straight forward question . Admittedly I did ask for hard facts and not sm or fb sound bites.

Tofu Terrorists

The outcome of campaigns are not easy to measure in hard facts.

There is an XR activist being interviewed on Woman's Hour right now talking about it, reaching millions of listeners.

@Darker

The outcome of campaigns are not easy to measure in hard facts.

There is an XR activist being interviewed on Woman's Hour right now talking about it, reaching millions of listeners.

But if the listeners are like a larger version of MN, then 81% of those listeners are right now being alienated by XR.....hardly an accomplishment.

@Darker

I asked a question - that's not making an assumption.

My theory is that how we respond to XRs tactics depends on our belief about urgency of the situation.

If you believe its too late to wait for people to make changes of their own accord then XRs actions are likely to feel more legitimate.

If you think its not too late and that we should be persuading people to make changes and ALSO believe that XRs actions are likely to be counterproductive and will alienate people who are less committed to change, then I can see why XR are causing upset.

I am in the first camp.

Just a question, even though that's been covered several time by several posters?

You theory is incorrect. Some of us don't believe in hurting the most vulnerable, whilst claiming its actually for their own good.

If its too late, how can you justify making peoples lives harder, now?

Some people live pay day to pay day. They can o lt worry about the next month. They dont have savings, they often don't get unpaid leave, they don't have the spare money to save for retirement.

They are going to get screwed in the climate crisis. So you are advocating screwing them a bit sooner. And that helps, how?

@Darker

Why is XR not seen to target them?

XR is a global organisation. XR in the UK holds the UK to account.

Didn't we establish the XR is in fact not active in alot of countries, despite op insisting they were active in China?

Well it looks like you are in the second camp, Hekatestorch.

@Darker

Well it looks like you are in the second camp, Hekatestorch.

The only person who has decided there are 2 camps is you. So no, I don't fit into either of your made up camps neatly at all.

Notice you didn't answer why it's OK to harm people, if its too late though.

Looks like XR aren't active in Russia either.

@Dita73

I live in Cambridge and extinction rebellion have done despicable things. They make me want to get a large diesel 4x4 and run them all over with it

Yes, what they did to Trinity lawns was inexcusable.

I happened upon them protesting on King’s lawn in the summer of 2020. They were draped in nylon fabrics with plastic water bottles dragging a cart with a model fish (acrylic) and a plastic bubble machine and couldn’t seem to understand why the locals were telling them to fuck off.

I was also at the science park when they blocked the road letting traffic build up all over the area.

Hekatestorch

If you believed that doing something would help millions and millions of people at the risk of harming 10 or 100 or 1000 people, but not doing anything would harm everybody, would you choose to act?

Rationally, most people would choose to act, but its human nature to be more moved by the plight of individuals, particularly those known to us.

I'm not an activist so I'm not claiming and high ground here. Quite the opposite.

@Darker

The outcome of campaigns are not easy to measure in hard facts.

There is an XR activist being interviewed on Woman's Hour right now talking about it, reaching millions of listeners.

Which suggests to me that there has been no positive outcomes to anything that XR have done bar winding people up. Sorry, but there is nothing that XR have said or done that has made me think i'm going to join them. If anything quite the opposite tbh.

@Hekatestorch

Looks like XR aren't active in Russia either.

They would probably be 'dealt with'. As usual it's the little guy, U.K who gets the kicking not the big brawny one , Russia, America et al. who must think we are a joke for putting up with this shite.

xramerica.org/

[quote Darker]xramerica.org/[/quote]
Ha ha ha ha

"No events"

@Darker

Hekatestorch

If you believed that doing something would help millions and millions of people at the risk of harming 10 or 100 or 1000 people, but not doing anything would harm everybody, would you choose to act?

Rationally, most people would choose to act, but its human nature to be more moved by the plight of individuals, particularly those known to us.

I'm not an activist so I'm not claiming and high ground here. Quite the opposite.

Buy hurting the people in London isn't going to achieve that. The governemtn don't care about them.

And I said 'if you believe it's too late'. If its too late and these people are can't be helped. Why on earth is it OK make their lives harder this week? Or last year?

@Darker

Do those of you who object to XR think the threat from climate change is not real? Or that it’s not very serious or urgent?

I think it’s real, serious and urgent but I don’t think XR help in the slightest and may actually make things worse

@iheartredsquirrels exactly. Not sure if you saw it on the last thread.

But people were pointing out that XR UK wouldn't be protesting in country if their privilege didn't protect them. After op claimed they were making huge sacrifices and said they couldn't sacrifice more.

But I bet they wouldn't do it, if there was actual risk attached to it.

And I said 'if you believe it's too late'. If its too late and these people are can't be helped. Why on earth is it OK make their lives harder this week? Or last year?

I believe its too late to leave it to individuals to make enough of a change. I believe that action now by the global governments could avert some of the consequences. But we do have to act now.

So in the logic model it is worth risking some harms for the greater good. Its obviously not at all ok for those who do miss an appointment or whatever.

Yeah, losing a minimum wage worker their job, leaving vulnerable people without their carers, robbing somebody of a precious last few moments with a dying loved one, preventing a sick baby from getting medical attention whilst leaving behind a trail of vandalism, destruction, single-use plastics and fast food wrappers before buggering off to the airport in their diesel vans is really going to make people respect them isn't it. Utter bellends

By your response you would think XR had hijacked the ambulances and struck up camps to block access to hospitals and factories.

The events this week are widely publicised in advance, which give people a chance to find other routes to work or to their appointments.

When the diesel driving diva practices what she preaches, I might give them a passing thought.
Until then I'll just carry on living my own life my own way.

YANBU- it's quite literally the end of the world at stake here.

People are more bothered about being inconvenienced than about the future of the world.

@Darker

And I said 'if you believe it's too late'. If its too late and these people are can't be helped. Why on earth is it OK make their lives harder this week? Or last year?

I believe its too late to leave it to individuals to make enough of a change. I believe that action now by the global governments could avert some of the consequences. But we do have to act now.

So in the logic model it is worth risking some harms for the greater good. Its obviously not at all ok for those who do miss an appointment or whatever.

You said you were in the camp that believes it was too late.

Its all well and good choosing who get access to medical care and who gets to keep the roof over their head. What gives XR the right to make that decisions.

I could even respected XR if, instead of asking for donation for legal fees etc, They had a fund to help people directly impacted by their actions.

If they really look at who they are harming by causing people to not get medical care. Not block ambulance and when they are blocked are it publicly clear its not acceptable.

Come up with a plan where people can access medical care AND they can protest.

Rather than just going 'ah yeah, but it's for their own good....they just don't get it'

I will never agree with people like Bradbrook deciding who is collateral damage. Who can access their own medical care. Not a chance.