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Non binary in school [title edited by MNHQ]

110 replies

malificent7 · 24/08/2021 11:35

Done to death i know but i dont know how to feel.
Dd (13) says loads of her peers are non binary and she finds it confusing. Lots of confusion about pronouns etc.
In dsd school appatently they have had lessons on it ( in what context im not sure).
Everyone is bi which there is no real big deal as at least everyone is learning about the horrors of homophobia.
Its good that ultra feminine/ masculine traits are being questioned...isn't it?
Dd is very sure of her femininity and declares herself as straight/ girly which is not without problems as she likes the faux nails/big bum/ preened eyebrows look.

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 24/08/2021 13:15

If I didn't know them I would say "they were over there" not "they was over there"

But surely if you know them well enough (either personally or through media reports) to know what their preferred pronouns are, then the sentence should read 'they was over there' rather than 'she was over there'? Using they as a plural or as a non - specific descriptor, then 'they were' seems reasonable but if you know that they is a specific, non plural then 'they was' seems to be more correct (to me anyway).

That article you linked is interesting about the changes from thee and thou.

ConstanceGracy · 24/08/2021 13:23

Same in the secondary’s round here, every kid and his dog are now bi/ trans/ Gay etc.. one girl in particular was all three during just a 4 week interval and is now binary and straight.
Seems like a fad right now and is making kids even more confused than they already are.

Planty13 · 24/08/2021 13:26

Surely breaking down stereotypes based on sex is more productive than obsessing over gender and declaring yourself as non binary.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 24/08/2021 13:42

@ConstanceGracy

Same in the secondary’s round here, every kid and his dog are now bi/ trans/ Gay etc.. one girl in particular was all three during just a 4 week interval and is now binary and straight. Seems like a fad right now and is making kids even more confused than they already are.
Indeed. Back in the day, politically angry, disaffected young people or those who felt they didn't belong with the 'cool kids' could identify with subcultures like punk and Goth. There was plenty of gender-bending going on there, too, but without outright denial of material reality. Telling people they are, or can be, what they are patently not is very unhealthy and sets them up for a great deal of unhappiness later on.

I'm particularly concerned for young trans men who believe they can transition away from the oppression they will suffer through life simply on account of the fact that they were born female.

In a culture of toxic masculinity, effeminacy is not cricket. I wonder how many young men, feeling there is no neat little box in which to place their own brand of masculinity, transition to escape that sense of not-belonging. Or whether some are on course to grow up as effeminate, gay men. If the latter is the case it shows a worrying trend back towards the homophobia Stonewall et al did such good work toward tackling in the first place.

Now they seem intent on undoing all the good they did. There's a profound, sad irony about all of the above.

FFSFFSFFS · 24/08/2021 13:43

@PoachedPair does your son only want to have romantic relationships with male bodied people?

Because I think you'll find that he in fact is transphobic and has an unacceptable genital fetish.

That is the ideology that you are proudly declaring yourself to be an ally to.

Unlikely to be as big an issue for a male as for poor lesbians who are bigots if they won't go out with "lesbians" who have lady penises, but still a shockingly homophobic movement. This wonderful new world is not good news for your gay son.

herculesoffline · 24/08/2021 14:00

@Waitwhat23

If I didn't know them I would say "they were over there" not "they was over there"

But surely if you know them well enough (either personally or through media reports) to know what their preferred pronouns are, then the sentence should read 'they was over there' rather than 'she was over there'? Using they as a plural or as a non - specific descriptor, then 'they were' seems reasonable but if you know that they is a specific, non plural then 'they was' seems to be more correct (to me anyway).

That article you linked is interesting about the changes from thee and thou.

If you think "they was" seems more correct, go ahead and use it! Just maybe don't go around saying it's grammatically wrong when it's not.
Waitwhat23 · 24/08/2021 14:13

I said it 'seems inconsistent' rather than stating it was grammatically wrong so....

JudgeRindersMinder · 24/08/2021 14:16

@Hopdathelf

No it’s not good because it’s very reductive. There used to be myriad ways of being a woman, all as valid as one another. Now you’re either a woman or you’re non binary. Too many non-girly girls or tomboys are being told they’re non-binary. It medicalises what is basic personal choice to adapt from day to day without labelling it.
I agree with this. Youngsters are being pressured into being anything BUT male or female, and they’re going along with it because they feel they should rather than because it’s what they are
ArcheryAnnie · 24/08/2021 14:20

Its good that ultra feminine/ masculine traits are being questioned...isn't it?

As others have said, feminine/masculine "traits" aren't being questioned, they are being reinforced. If you aren't considered "feminine", then you can't be a girl, but must be nonbinary - which is, of course, nonsense, and regressive, sexist nonsense at that.

I don't blame girls for wanting to escape from being labelled girls. I do blame any adults enabling this sexist bullshit.

trancepants · 24/08/2021 14:45

@PoachedPair

My son is in his 20's. Two months ago he told ,me he was gay. He's carried this secret with him for, I don't know, 10 or 15 years, maybe more. He didn't tell me because he didn't feel comfortable about being out. I feel like I failed him because he felt he couldn't talk to me. What I would give for him to have had this experience at school and to have never had to keep this secret.

He's a changed person since he came out. He's visibly lighter, happier, more carefree. Just has he should have been for many years.

As for me, I'm a proud parent of a wonderful gay young man and have pledged to be a Proud Ally. Infact maybe that's my new MN username.

So let kids learn, experiment, try things on. It will be such a happier life for those who really are LBGTQ+ and feel free to live as themselves.

My DS is in primary and as such has not yet come across peers who are experimenting with their gender identity. We have talked about the different sexualities, though he thinks in terms of "falling in love." He asked me recently if I would accept him if he was gay. I told him no. I'd accept him if he grew up to be a stockbroker or had some other career I found a bit ethically dodgy. But I wouldn't "accept" him if he's gay because having to accept something implies there is something you would prefer not to be. Whereas if he's gay, straight or bi isn't remotely relevant to how I feel about him. Who he loves could never change how I love him. Being gay isn't something to be accepted, it just is.

On the other hand I have worked with teenagers who's parents do actually retract their love when they find out their kids are gay. Who actually throw out their teenagers, still in 2021, when they find out they are gay. Non binary identities in schools won't help with that. Kids don't need this stuff in their schools to show their parents who they are. They need parents who will love them no matter what and who let them know that throughout their lives.

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