Non binary in school [title edited by MNHQ]

[malificent7]

Done to death i know but i dont know how to feel.
Dd (13) says loads of her peers are non binary and she finds it confusing. Lots of confusion about pronouns etc.
In dsd school appatently they have had lessons on it ( in what context im not sure).
Everyone is bi which there is no real big deal as at least everyone is learning about the horrors of homophobia.
Its good that ultra feminine/ masculine traits are being questioned...isn't it?
Dd is very sure of her femininity and declares herself as straight/ girly which is not without problems as she likes the faux nails/big bum/ preened eyebrows look.

I think I preferred it when everyone was an emo

@Itsanewdah

its great. there are millions of ways of being human, no need to fit into 2 random categories.

I'm pretty sure we used to just call this 'personality'.

Every woman I know over 40 must be non--binary then, because none of the women I know have long hair, wear pink etc.

There was a conversation last weeek about school children saying Lady Diana was non-binary because she has short hair, the whole thing is based on reductive stereotypes.
If you get rid of the idea of 'woman/girl' as a sex class then you can't point out male/female inequalities.
It pushes a few of children on to the pathway of breast binding and surgery as a way out of being a woman.
It's an anti-scientific movement because there are only 2 sexes in reality.
Why can't you be a non-binary woman, or a non-binary man, this would reflect that you acknowledge which sex you are but don't want to dress as a steriotype of your gender.

Thecrwaon why I called it all " bollocks" in my title is that dd got called homophobic for identifying as straight!

@ghostyslovesheets

hang on HQ you are taking this down because of swearing?????

Clearly not...

I agree it’s bollocks, but people are free to explore stupid ideas, and should be able to do so without mockery especially while they are young.

I wouldn’t refer to any one specific individual as “they”, though, as it would do my head in. I think that’s the most important thing, that we respect one another’s boundaries. You are welcome to think of yourself as non-binary, but as I see you as female I am allowed to refer to you as “she”.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Non binary bollocks in school

learning about the horrors of homophobia

The irony is well and truly lost on you, isn't it.

Not at all. Sexual orientation is one thing. Gender identity is another No connection, no read across , different categories. Which is why lots of gay and bisexual people are not remotely interested in ' No n binary bollocks '.

@Itsanewdah

its great. there are millions of ways of being human, no need to fit into 2 random categories.

Random categories?!! 😂

Won't be too long now before being straight is a minority pursuit. Some people seem quite intent on abusing young minds with their messed up world view.

For groups that don’t like to be generalised, they sure seem to love a stereotype.

I’m sure that I would be told I was non-binary or really a boy if I were growing up now. It’s not allowed to be a non-Princess girl.

Can anyone actually define what it means to be a girl/woman? Everyone’s experience is so personal and different.

People with DSD have repeatedly asked that they be left out of these kinds of incendiary gender politics. Why are those who subscribe to The Ideology incapable of respecting this?

I don't ovulate. I endured ten years of fertility and struggled to have a child. That makes me atypical. I am still very much female. Women who have had hysterectomies are still women. People with DSDs are also male or female. They are atypical in a similar sense.

Humans are a dimorphic species.

I reject reductive gender stereotypes. By the reasoning of The Ideology, that makes me non-binary. And humans have exhibited a combination of traits now recognisable as 'gendered' since time immemorial. Non-binary does not make anyone different or special.

I have female anatomy, female chromosomes, a smaller female skeleton, lower female muscle and bone density, a female reproductive system. I can dress and present as I wish. I'll still be female.

As yet, no one has been able to actively demonstrate what it is to 'live as' a woman, or to 'be' a woman in their heads. No one. Ever.

I wouldn’t refer to any one specific individual as “they”, though, as it would do my head in.

You've probably done exactly that 100 times before. It's perfectly normal and natural.

Its only when an individual asks for they/them pronouns it suddenly becomes an issue and nobody can fathom how to do it.

Quite agree with you, duckonabike.

Why should you have to formally secede from your own sex because you don't conform to some poxy stereotypes?

Write to the principal outlining your concerns, and ask other parents to do the same.

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet, can't you just alter the thread title? This conversation is important. It's leaching into schools and parents do need to be aware what's going on.

Swearing is fine - in context. We'd remove a post telling another poster to fuck off, for example, but are unlikely to remove a post just because it has swear words. In this case, we think it's possible to discuss concerns without describing it as bollocks. Such a term is unlikely to foster broad and civil debate.

We do not want Mumsnet to be a place that feels inherently hostile to any group, be that trans people, gender-critical feminists or anyone else (except perhaps trolls). If you can abide by our rules – the spirit and not just the letter – we want you to feel you can be a part of the community.

Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I think everyone should just say they're non-binary - because they are.

Once it no longer makes you "special" it should all just die off.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

What's confusing about saying 'they' or 'them'

Its not a big deal.

For people with ASD it can be quite difficult to initiate the Orwellian double think required.

People for whom English is not their first language, or who have learning difficulties (the percentage is higher than you might think) need language to be as clear as possible.

The correct term is Disorder of Sexual Development and those who have DSD's are either XX or XY.

Not true. There are many DSDs where there is a third chromosome. So you can be XXY for example.

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Swearing is fine - in context. We'd remove a post telling another poster to fuck off, for example, but are unlikely to remove a post just because it has swear words. In this case, we think it's possible to discuss concerns without describing it as bollocks. Such a term is unlikely to foster broad and civil debate.

We do not want Mumsnet to be a place that feels inherently hostile to any group, be that trans people, gender-critical feminists or anyone else (except perhaps trolls). If you can abide by our rules – the spirit and not just the letter – we want you to feel you can be a part of the community.

Can you edit the title of the thread then to remove the offending word?

@nearlyhellokitty

all these people saying there's only male and female people do know that biologically 1-2 people in a 100 are intersex?? life is a lot more complicated.

non-binary is about how you feel in your head. if you listen to people who actually identify as that - often in later life, it's the only thing that's makes sense to them as to how they feel. it's all very well if you don't feel that but don't be so rude as to reject someone else's experience adn call it 'bollocks'. That's in fact incredibly rude.

Jesus this is so offensive, you know people with DSDs are still either male or female? Othering them like that is really disgusting.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Non binary bollocks in school

learning about the horrors of homophobia

The irony is well and truly lost on you, isn't it.

There's definitely some irony lost here but I don't think it's what you think it is. For non-binary to be real, it requires the belief that the gender binary is too. It can't exist without believing that the majority of people naturally align with gender stereotypes. It's a deeply sexist concept and I'm glad that young people are starting to reject it and realise that no one belongs in a gender box.

nearlyhellokitty

"all these people saying there's only male and female people do know that biologically 1-2 people in a 100 are intersex?? life is a lot more complicated."

It is actually between 0.07% and 1.7%.

www.unfe.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/UNFE-Intersex.pdf

I think schools are In a difficult position. We are asked by the government to cover certain issues - eg this year we have been asked to teach students about incel culture, and non-binary gender, sexuality and discrimination are part of the PSHE curriculum.

In my opinion, this is not encouraging teens to become non binary but raising important issues that need to be discussed. In my school, the impetus for declaring non binary seems to very much come from the peer group or individual.

I agree with a previous poster though that teenagers will always 'rebel' and this is currently one perceived way to achieve that or to try to find your place in the world.

I don't have any particular issue with using preferred pronouns (unless it's compelled) but what I find interesting is when someone is writing about someone who uses 'they' rather than 'he' or 'she' but doesn't then change the grammar of a sentence to suit.

For example, when previously using a she pronoun to refer to Demi Levato (for example) a sentence may have said 'she was a child actor'. Using a non binary pronoun, the sentence should read 'they was a child actor' but its never written like that (that I have seen anyway), it's always written 'they were a child actor' which seems inconsistent and not respecting the preferred pronoun.

Random derail, sorry!