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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Non binary in school [title edited by MNHQ]

110 replies

malificent7 · 24/08/2021 11:35

Done to death i know but i dont know how to feel.
Dd (13) says loads of her peers are non binary and she finds it confusing. Lots of confusion about pronouns etc.
In dsd school appatently they have had lessons on it ( in what context im not sure).
Everyone is bi which there is no real big deal as at least everyone is learning about the horrors of homophobia.
Its good that ultra feminine/ masculine traits are being questioned...isn't it?
Dd is very sure of her femininity and declares herself as straight/ girly which is not without problems as she likes the faux nails/big bum/ preened eyebrows look.

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 24/08/2021 12:12

IMO it’s a fashion. Or a fad, if you prefer. And at that age they’re so often painfully conscious of fashion, whether clothes or the words they use, or anything else.

CatsArePeople · 24/08/2021 12:13

everybody is essentially non-binary and every generation pushed gender norms to a certain extent.
Its important that kids are occupied with something worthwhile and don't have too much time for internet.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 24/08/2021 12:13

@Hopdathelf

No it’s not good because it’s very reductive. There used to be myriad ways of being a woman, all as valid as one another. Now you’re either a woman or you’re non binary. Too many non-girly girls or tomboys are being told they’re non-binary. It medicalises what is basic personal choice to adapt from day to day without labelling it.
That's a very good point. I wonder what would my label be if I was growing up now as a tomboy who occasionally liked pretty girly stuff
BeauxRingarde · 24/08/2021 12:16

@Itsanewdah

its great. there are millions of ways of being human, no need to fit into 2 random categories.
There always were, and there weren't two random categories.

It's NOW that children are being forced into boxes. If you're not ultra feminine then you're non-binary or trans, even though all you actual are is a perfectly average girl.

It's reductive offensive bollocks.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 24/08/2021 12:17

What's confusing about saying 'they' or 'them' Confused

Its not a big deal.

PlanDeRaccordement · 24/08/2021 12:17

Well, gender hypothesis has gender being a spectrum rather than binary of two choices. So the way to explain it is to draw a line and at one end put stereotypical boy/man and on the other end stereotypical girl/woman. Then ask your child, how many people do you think meet all the gender stereotypes that exist for their sex? The answer will be very few. The vast majority of people do not meet all gender stereotypes. So then show her that means in gender hypothesis language that only a few people are actually “binary.” The rest of us, don’t meet all the stereotypes, and therefore are non-binary. Non-binary really means average or the norm, a person who isn’t a living example of all stereotypes for their sex and we fall all along the gender spectrum which is literally defined by gender stereotypes.

Then you can go over the problems of defining gender through stereotypes. How it is restrictive and how it changes over time and by culture.

Mazblue86 · 24/08/2021 12:17

@Itsanewdah

its great. there are millions of ways of being human, no need to fit into 2 random categories.
'Two random categories...' Come on...
MarieIVanArkleStinks · 24/08/2021 12:17

Its good that ultra feminine/ masculine traits are being questioned...isn't it?

There's the rub. They are not being questioned, they are being reinforced.

Gender ideology does what it says on the tin. It subscribes, wholesale, to all this feminine = pink, glitter, unicorns and long hair; masculine = blue, machismo, superheroes, no effeminacy allowed kind of nonsense. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Men are the breadmakers, women are homemakers. Public sphere = masculine, domestic hearth and home = feminine.

These are precisely the kind of reductive gender stereotypes feminists in particular have been challenging for at least the last century. There's no demonstrable connection between these imagined gender traits and [immutable] human biology that designates whether we are male or female.

This whole recent gender anxiety stems from the reinforcement of those stereotypes, not a challenge to them. 'I like pink and glitter so I must be a girl' is clearly (to me, anyway) bunkum. In these terms, non-binary becomes meaningless because we are all fall somewhere in that category.

Parcelling yourself up in another identity 'box' and shoving a neat little label on yourself merely reinforces those ideologies. It doesn't challenge them in any way whatsoever. 'Gender' is such a nebulous concept that I've seen anyone able to establish in any way what 'feeling like a woman', or a man, or for that matter, neither, actually entails.

Unsure what the YABU/YANBU refers to. If it's a scratching of your head over the whole messed-up shebang, YANBU. If it's a belief that any of this reductive, dictatorial ideology is in any way subversive, YABU!

nearlyhellokitty · 24/08/2021 12:19

all these people saying there's only male and female people do know that biologically 1-2 people in a 100 are intersex?? life is a lot more complicated.

non-binary is about how you feel in your head. if you listen to people who actually identify as that - often in later life, it's the only thing that's makes sense to them as to how they feel. it's all very well if you don't feel that but don't be so rude as to reject someone else's experience adn call it 'bollocks'. That's in fact incredibly rude.

trancepants · 24/08/2021 12:19

@isthisareverse

I am looking forward to the day we'll be buying "gender neutral" puppies or kitten Hmm

because if we can dismiss the sex we were born with, the same applies to everybody else surely.

Well technically....., my dog has XY chromosomes but no bollocks so I guess that makes him non-binary?
CorrBlimeyGG · 24/08/2021 12:20

Non binary bollocks in school

learning about the horrors of homophobia

The irony is well and truly lost on you, isn't it.

Peanutsandchilli · 24/08/2021 12:20

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

What's confusing about saying 'they' or 'them' Confused

Its not a big deal.

Because people are (usually) clearly male or female. It's not confusing, as such, more something people are not used to and it's second nature to say he or she.
MintMe · 24/08/2021 12:20

I read recently that being non binary is like ordering the most expensive thing on the menu then splitting the bill. It only really works if you're the only one who does it.

We're all essentially non binary as no one ever fits squarely within the expected social norms of their gender.

trancepants · 24/08/2021 12:21

@nearlyhellokitty

all these people saying there's only male and female people do know that biologically 1-2 people in a 100 are intersex?? life is a lot more complicated.

non-binary is about how you feel in your head. if you listen to people who actually identify as that - often in later life, it's the only thing that's makes sense to them as to how they feel. it's all very well if you don't feel that but don't be so rude as to reject someone else's experience adn call it 'bollocks'. That's in fact incredibly rude.

And do you know that associations for people with DSDs as well as individual people with DSDs have officially asked over and over and over again for people to stop using them to make this point. How about you fucking respect these people and stop turning their lives into some sort of shitty attempt at a 'gotcha!' It's fucking disgusting and massively disrespectful and people who do it are dicks.
CorrBlimeyGG · 24/08/2021 12:22

my dog has XY chromosomes but no bollocks so I guess that makes him non-binary?

Is a woman only a woman if their reproductive organs are intact?

I'm sure you were trying to be funny, but what a terribly ignorant thing to say.

AvaCallanach · 24/08/2021 12:23

"I have a friend who's non binary, simply she prefers to be called they/them rather than she/her"

..and yet you accidentally misgendered them! Irony meter explodes.

Non binary is the epitome of luxury beliefs.

Haffiana · 24/08/2021 12:23

God, I can't WAIT for the apocalyptic backlash against all this bollocks.

It is coming.

smittenkittten · 24/08/2021 12:25

I feel so sorry for kids today. Why are they being led to believe you can change what you are just by thinking it. It makes me despair.

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 24/08/2021 12:25

Hello everyone. We need to take this thread down now as the 'bollocks' isn't exactly what we'd consider the spirit of civil debate. Please have a read of our guidelines if you're unsure.

ghostyslovesheets · 24/08/2021 12:25

It's NOW that children are being forced into boxes. If you're not ultra feminine then you're non-binary or trans, even though all you actual are is a perfectly average girl
It's reductive offensive bollocks

This! and also this -

God, I can't WAIT for the apocalyptic backlash against all this bollocks

nearlyhellokitty · 24/08/2021 12:25

@trancepants

so you agree with everyone saying that everything is simple biologically? that there is just male and female?

i do not mean to be disrespectful. so i'm sorry if i stepped on a boundary

3Br1tnee · 24/08/2021 12:25

Its good that ultra feminine/ masculine traits are being questioned...isn't it?

Is it? I don't imagine that's very nice if you are ultra feminine/masculine Confused

ghostyslovesheets · 24/08/2021 12:26

hang on HQ you are taking this down because of swearing?????

Waitwhat23 · 24/08/2021 12:26

@nearlyhellokitty

all these people saying there's only male and female people do know that biologically 1-2 people in a 100 are intersex?? life is a lot more complicated.

non-binary is about how you feel in your head. if you listen to people who actually identify as that - often in later life, it's the only thing that's makes sense to them as to how they feel. it's all very well if you don't feel that but don't be so rude as to reject someone else's experience adn call it 'bollocks'. That's in fact incredibly rude.

'Intersex' is an outdated term. The correct term is Disorder of Sexual Development and those who have DSD's are either XX or XY. With the advert of karotyping, those with 'ambiguous' genitalia can be sexed correctly. I also have concerns about the statistics you have quoted - I believe it is much lower - where is your statistic from?

'Intersex' people have also repeatedly asked to be left out of this debate.

3Br1tnee · 24/08/2021 12:27

It's NOW that children are being forced into boxes. If you're not ultra feminine then you're non-binary or trans, even though all you actual are is a perfectly average girl
It's reductive offensive bollocks

This x1000.