Inappropriate or not?

[user1465146157]

Has anyone experienced a family member being overly touchy with their children?

An uncle by marriage always hugs my daughters and nieces weirdly close and insists on 'proper' hugs goodbye. Always freaks me out as it's on more than one occasion and in some cases when he will see them again the next day so there's really no need for it. Blood relatives don't do this with them but with him there's always this big deal hello and goodbye involving a close, long hug.

AIBU? I just feel uneasy but no proof it's untoward and I know how serious it would be to say this out loud if it's innocent so I don't know what to do.

The kids are aged 0-5.

Few things I've found odd in recent times include

• insisting on massive hugs twice
• actually saying out loud 'be careful where you touch I don't want to be arrested' during a hug
• volunteering quite loudly to change one of their nappies (just find this odd that a grown man who isn't their dad would be so willing to do this when no one asked him to)
• offering to put on their shoes if leaving the house

Writing this down I'm aware it's not all so bad but I just have a feeling. However also aware I could be overreacting a lot so just wanted thoughts

Thank you

I knew someone like this once and he did get off on it. Someone told me at a later date.
Now if I see them I say we high five because of COVID .
It works for us.

I would be very wary and definitely supervise all contact . Expect that as your DC get older they won't want these hugs and make sure you tell him so .

Completely agree with everyone else... Trust your instincts.

This is awful OP
Any time he suggests any of the above I would just say a firm No and tell your child to "come along"
I would also be having a word with the nieces mother too.

@Ughmaybenot

Trust your instincts and keep your children away from him. actually saying out loud 'be careful where you touch I don't want to be arrested' during a hug Very telling that while hugging a small child, this is what was in his head.

This^ Too ready to blame his physical reaction on the touch of a toddler. So it's "her fault" if he gets aroused? RED FLAG. Let's play a new game: KEEP AWAY!

@Window1

Agree with other posters that if it doesn't feel right that is enough to put an end to it.

Any practical advice on post to stop this? Just say we don't do hugs? Introduce a hand shake? Can hardly say sorry uncle no hugs for you, you're a bit creepy.

But that's exactly what should be being said.

I can't believe that a parent could hear Uncle Creepy repeatedly say things like the "don't want to get arrested" comment & not verbally challenge him.

The children themselves need to hear it too. Why should they be on the wrong end of someone who "insists" on hugging them? Who is speaking up for them, & letting them know that they are allowed autonomy over their own bodies FFS?

Also op you don’t want your dc to get conditioned and normalise his behaviour - this means he could push boundaries even further iykwim ?

Some could say that he’s grooming in plain sight.

Thank you so much for everyone's responses - when I wrote this I felt the exact same and do trust my instincts I just wanted some back up I suppose as I can't really tell anyone in real life..

I of course never let him be alone with them - it's difficult as it's family, but my Dh's side so not my own - and also he's not blood related it's by marriage so his wife would be devastated if I even suggested this kind of thing. She dotes on him and enjoys all this attention to children as it shows he's 'good with kids' which is what she wants. She actually encourages it and it's hard to tell her not to encourage hugs without sounding horrible.

I'm already seen as a bit overprotective (I think) but I don't care as I have a strong feeling it's all a bit weird.

The nappy thing has always freaked me out - never understood it, and the comment about being arrested made me feel sick. He said it in front of all of us which makes it sound like a joke to other adults but it's totally weird to say that plus she might of heard him.

Some meetings are unavoidable but we don't live close by which is good. I just always come across as the bad guy if i move them away from him, but I will continue to.

Thank you everyone - children need protection first before any adults feelings and anyone with good intentions should understand that x

@ChargingBuck

I hear you and I wish I'd said something when he made that comment - it was only last night and I can't stop thinking about it which is why I posted this

I agree I should have said something - I was a bit in shock processing it to be honest but I feel more prepared now.

He's the kind of person you can't show your teeth to without being accused of being fussy - and he's always right

@window1

Thanks for asking for practical advice as it is hard to bluntly accuse someone about this kind of thing

I just think for now avoidance is the best way and if I hurt feelings along the way then so be it

Yes OP tough if his or his wife's feelings get hurt.

His comments aren't funny, it's plain disturbing. His insistence on nappy changes and putting on their shoes is also completely inappropriate.

He's not to be trusted around children and I say that from experience I'm afraid.

@IheartJKR

Thanks for this - completely, don't worry I have spoken to mine and explained you don't have to hug if you don't want to - and I'll continue this as they're older

It's certainly not going to be normalised to them I'll make sure

I'm not worried about my kids as I'm in control there, my issue is explaining this to the adults around me and how to stop him doing this. Like I said I'll just avoid from now on where possible and make sure they're never alone with him

Trust your instincts. If you feel uneasy about it then that's reason enough to intervene.

As the kids are young I would explain (to everyone) that you've decided it's a good time to introduce some basic consent education. So look at PANTS by nspcc and also discuss that they don't have to do anything they don't want in terms of hugs/kisses. Explain to all family that you would rather dc are asked if they want a hug/kiss etc and that if they say "no" then thats the final answer.

With ds we do this - if he says he doesn't want to give someone a liss or hug goodbye then that's fine, does he want to give a high 5 instead, if not then that's fine too. If he is given a gift he has to say thank you but again he is asked if he wants to give a hug as well, if not fine. Children need to understand autonomy and consent with regard to their bodies. Its also good for teaching them to respect boundaries of others too.

Urgh does he tickle the dc? A relative used to tickle me til I cried.. Started locking myself in the downstairs loo when he came.
I hate it when my dc have tickle episodes..makes me shudder.. And I am def not ticklish at all now.

Oof I would avoid at all costs & remove my DC away from him and say we don't do forced hugs here. I'd rather have hurt their feelings than my child being hurt. Something very off about him.

[quote user1465146157]@ChargingBuck

I hear you and I wish I'd said something when he made that comment - it was only last night and I can't stop thinking about it which is why I posted this

I agree I should have said something - I was a bit in shock processing it to be honest but I feel more prepared now.

He's the kind of person you can't show your teeth to without being accused of being fussy - and he's always right [/quote]
Oh I completely understand feeling frozen in the moment & unable to address it.
But as he's a repeat offender, I think you would benefit from rehearsing a few appropriate responses ahead of time, so you don't get shocked out of being able to respond.

I also get the "he's always right" & that's even mroe reason to be prepared.
"I'm sorry you feel it's making a fuss to not be amused by paedo jokes Uncle Creepy ..." etc
"Stop insisting on hugging the DC, you are overwhelming them & making them feel uncomfortable."
"Yes, my childrens' feelings are more important than your embarrassment, behave yourself"

He's the one making it awkward, not you. Hand the awkward right back where it belongs, by shining a spotlight on Creepy & refusing to feel any embarrassment yourself.

PP's comment upthread about grommming in plain sight is spot-on by the way. All that plausible deniability!
If he were genuinely innocent, he'd be mortified & tone it down. he isn't, so he doesn't - instead he actively deflects blame by pointing at OP for "fussing".

OP, can you take him aside & tell him you are fed up with him being over the top with the kids & he is to stop demanding to touch them? Or would he just bulldoze you?

That man would never be alone with my children.
Creepy uncles are commonplace. At best they make you feel gross and awkward, at worst its a lot more serious.
paedos are also more commonplace than people think, and if someone is setting off your spidey senses, then you bloody listen to them. We have instincts and intuition for a reason. Its not enough to call the police on him, but its plenty enough to make sure you keep your kids away from him

if hes being overt in plain sight and you dont have a choice but to be around him, then I think i would make retorts in plain sight too.
"Its ok Darling, no you do not have to give ANYBODY a hug, especially not overfriendly creepy uncles"

@ChargingBuck is absolutely right. Mark him out, make comments and make him avoid you and your dc. I'd have gone with 'arrested? Why? Why are you saying that? Have you been arrested for your behaviour with children before' 'why say it then? That's made me feel very uncomfortable I don't understand jokes about child abuse' then next time you see him and he goes to hug kids 'Just leave them ok? You've said enough'
Yes you'll be accused of being an over protective lunatic but he'll leave then alone.

OP,
Him shutting anyone down if they try and enforce boundaries by implying you are fussy/sensitive/creating drama are all the tactics of subterfuge that abusers use.

How old are the children?

We used to do the hand shaking thing as it was funny with our youngest and he loved it.
It was only through reading years about body autonomy and how kids shouldn't be pushed to hug that it reminded something in me that I had never really thought of in years.

Could you between now and the next time you meet teach them to shake hands with people and to ONLY give hugs to the really special people that THEY decide they really like.

My children love a hug as young adults, but obviously it is completely on their terms, at their request.

Never too early to teach body autonomy.
You sound like a wonderful mother.

Definitely trust your instincts.. so many alarm bells . The “be careful where you touch” is just glaringly worrying as he’s making a joke of it to sound like “oh I’m not like that!”

his wife would be devastated if I even suggested this kind of thing. She dotes on him and enjoys all this attention to children as it shows he's 'good with kids' which is what she wants

I’m sure that a lot of grooming looks like someone is “good with kids” - they pay attention and charm them at first.

Could you use some of the resources that NSPCC have (I know they are not a perfect organisation but we’ve used the what’s in your pants is private stuff which worked for talking to DC) to explain to the nieces mum and any other adult allies in the family that the behaviour is not acceptable forcing children to have physical contact with him? And agree/plan some ready made phrases for when you need to stop it if you see him at family events?

Something like “oh the children are learning about bodies and privacy and boundaries, so no forced hugs and kisses. Also they are germ spreaders aren’t they, I wouldn’t want you catching anything”

Someone might have better wording on that!

''Trust your instincts. The kind of people who do this ARE our brothers, uncles, cousins etc''

and aunts,sisters etc. It's not just men.

I go along with most on here, it is WRONG.
My DH says it is borderline reportable. He said he would report it as the early stages of grooming you OP, to accept the creep.

That might be difficult for you to do but you need to talk to other women in the family as well.

Hi OP,

I am an Auntie (by marriage) to 2 young nieces. they are my DH's brother's daughters.

• DNs usually come to me for hugs but if they don't ask, I usually ask for hugs hello and goodbye (because I don't see them too often) but if they say no, it's their body and their choice and I don't insist on hugs. I think it's important that children know that they don't have to hug anyone if they don't want to.
• I've never made a 'joke' like that. I agree, it would set off alarm bells for me.
• I don't insist on changing nappies but I would offer if DN's parents are busy. Though they always do it and have never asked me to. (I would rather not do it tbh but would do so if asked if it would help out the parents).
• I do help the youngest DN to put on her shoes when we are all going for a walk together, as she can't do this by herself. I'm not sure what's strange about that on its own.

I do think if you have concerns that you should trust your instincts and never allow your children alone with this person. And I would insist that it is your DCs choice whether or not they want to hug (and up to you if you allow this at all with this person - I thought a pp had a good idea by suggesting high fives).