Where will the refugees coming to the UK live?

[Meeklynamechanged]

In no way a goady thread, I fully support helping the people fleeing such horrid circumstances, but genuine question.. where will they live? Where do we put people?

Where I live we have people waiting 10 years for a council property. Most areas around the UK have a huge deficit in available housing that doesn't meet demand.

With so many families stuck in overcrowded hostels and B&B's, families of 5 in 1 bed flats, I can't see where all of the required the housing will come from?

The middle class lefties who think SH tenants have simply been living in a dwelling for just too damn long and think they should be re assessed is precisely the sort of thing that Nigel Farage Laurence Fox and Richard Tice love because thats where they get to swoop in and stoke the devision that others lit the blue touch paper on.

As a working class social tenant left winger who has been in my one bedroom SH flat since 1994 precisely because i didnt have children which is another thing ppl moan at us for when we do, quite frankly it proves that you cant do right for doing wrong.

Ive really had my fucking eyes opened to what Guardian readers really are over the last 18 months.

But I think what you want to say Threythinkitsallover is that you don't want refugee families in the UK at all.

If that's how you feel just come out and say it, and stop trying to argue the case for social housing lists/PRS access/infrastructure and cost. All of which the impact on is nominal on a grand scheme.

Own your view, you don't want to help and support people fleeing unimaginable terror. If that's yours opinion fine, I don't agree with it but it's yours to have.

I'm from a working class background, I don't think that most locals are bigoted about individuals.

I do think that there has been a narrative of scarcity pushed by some papers and then some governments which plays to peoples fear.

This coupled with the removal of the social housing network, lack of investment in the NHS and similar feeds the scarcity narrative.

I worked for a good while in child protection in the ex mining villages in south Yorkshire. I'm not really going to take lectures on middle class attitudes.

I grasp reasonably well how economics work even having been to very big standard comp.
Yes I've been to decent Unis but so what, that is perfectly possible from a working class background to gain a decent education, how bloody patronizing to suggest it isn't.

There are plenty of decent caring people in working class communities.

@Blossomtoes

Oh lord, she’s off again.

Who are you referring to exactly? Or do you prefer to he vaguely passively aggressive to evade the talk guidelines?

TableFlowerss

I’m struggling to understand why people don’t think we should help these poor people!

Yes there’s shit going on here, but fuck me, the shut they have to put up with would get far worse. These people are literally going to have the worst possible life imaginable, particularly the women, if they are forced to stay there.

In the grand scheme of things, 20,000 people is nothing, especially when we’ll be helping protect them from potentially death.

Everyone here is entitled to an education.There are jobs and yes things are expensive but some people don’t help themselves either….

"Oh dear God ^ The worrying thing is, you really believe what you're saying."

Why would the poster not believe any of what she said above? I really do not understand the vitriol. She's simply stating documented, well researched facts. 🤔

@paddlingon

I'm from a working class background, I don't think that most locals are bigoted about individuals.

I do think that there has been a narrative of scarcity pushed by some papers and then some governments which plays to peoples fear.

This coupled with the removal of the social housing network, lack of investment in the NHS and similar feeds the scarcity narrative.

I worked for a good while in child protection in the ex mining villages in south Yorkshire. I'm not really going to take lectures on middle class attitudes.

I grasp reasonably well how economics work even having been to very big standard comp.
Yes I've been to decent Unis but so what, that is perfectly possible from a working class background to gain a decent education, how bloody patronizing to suggest it isn't.

There are plenty of decent caring people in working class communities.

Yep. My family were all working class and grew uo in some of the poorest places jn the country. I went to some of the worst schools in the league tables, who are always at the bottom. I've been homeless, lived on other people's sofas. Had no heating and been starving hungry. This idea that nobody on Mumsnet has any idea how hard life can be in the UK as a citizen, and that the fact we have any sympathy for people in far worse than almost anybody in the UK and say we - as a country - should help such people and give them safe refuge, is met with such animositiy, is a sign of how low our society has fallen. It's so upsetting to see that so many people appear to have so little empathy. As I said earlier in the thread I am autistic. I have cried at what is happening to these people. To describe that as "hand-wringing" etc shows to me yet again that it's not being autistic that makes somebody lacl basic human empathy. To be spiteful and "what about me?!" when talking about refugees? It's shameful.

@VioletSand I'm going to remember you the next time I hear that people with autism don't have empathy.

You plainly have it in buckets.

[quote paddlingon]@VioletSand I'm going to remember you the next time I hear that people with autism don't have empathy.

You plainly have it in buckets.[/quote]
Thank you. From the many autistic friends I have, who are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, there's really no truth in the stereotype. It's also been debunked scoentifically. But it's a perception people still have so I'm glad you don't think that and have seen that in me. I wish everybody would think a bit more about how hard it would be to be someone else, and be a little less judgemental. Not that I am perfect in that respect, far from it! But I try my best.

Did you know that in the 1970s Leicester city council placed an advert in a Ugandan paper. It warned of no houses, no jobs and full schools. 'In your own interests and those of your family you should... not come to Leicester,' it read.

In the 1930s, with the excuse of high unemployment, only about 10,000 Jewish refugees were allowed in. Then the 'kindertransports'. But only children (no threat). The parents were left to their fate, most of them murdered. They weren't allowed in.

20,000 Afghan refugees over a few years is nothing. If you didn't hear about it in the papers, you wouldn't even notice a difference. If you have anger over the UK govt's social and/or housing policies, fine, but it's a separate issue. Don't try to balance the books on the backs of some of the world's most desperate people (to whom the UK also has a debt given their involvement in Afghanistan). Let's try and be (a little) on the right side of history.

@habibibibi

Did you know that in the 1970s Leicester city council placed an advert in a Ugandan paper. It warned of no houses, no jobs and full schools. 'In your own interests and those of your family you should... not come to Leicester,' it read.

In the 1930s, with the excuse of high unemployment, only about 10,000 Jewish refugees were allowed in. Then the 'kindertransports'. But only children (no threat). The parents were left to their fate, most of them murdered. They weren't allowed in.

20,000 Afghan refugees over a few years is nothing. If you didn't hear about it in the papers, you wouldn't even notice a difference. If you have anger over the UK govt's social and/or housing policies, fine, but it's a separate issue. Don't try to balance the books on the backs of some of the world's most desperate people (to whom the UK also has a debt given their involvement in Afghanistan). Let's try and be (a little) on the right side of history.

I agree. And we really need to be given the way this country has behaved for the last 20 years. We have fewer friends every day, aside from the very basic humanitarian argument which is a no brainer.

Perhaps with all the new WFH thats going on then the old office spaces can be used as emergency shelters?

@wombat1a

Perhaps with all the new WFH thats going on then the old office spaces can be used as emergency shelters?

It's a nice idea but doesn't really work, it was covered earlier in the thread. That's why the home office have their own specific housing for these purposes - separate to LA/HA housing - dotted around the country.

Want them to get help but wish also safe housing for domestic violence victims. Have been beaten and raped years risk of being killed. Life everyday at risk and the fear and constant lack of safety being on edge worse than the physical violence. Trapped nowhere safe to go.. Depends on your area but some councils don't care they break the law and get away with it. If they do accept legal duty they try to put you in dangerous unsafe mixed shared housing. The refugees need help but not safe or appropriate to put female victims of serious domestic violent in same housing cos lots are men and not their fault but they have trauma too but different and if men, deal with it differently. Ok if female refugees though bad to share with any human cos not dignity or safe if not your own safe space. Think they should be helped but government bad people and liars when saying they want to help refugees cos they want people to be safe. Government don't care if people not safe. The councils tell me not enough housing. When at risk of being murdered. Wish proper safe housing. For the refugees but also wish for people in my situation.

Where I live there are 40,000 people on the council waiting list & out of those 12,000 are in urgent need, the city have already taken in refugees from Somalia & Romania in recent years. I honestly think there will be a lot of complaints if the council bump a load of people straight to the top of the list when they have just arrived in the country. They should be put in temporary accommodation like B & B, hotels or hostels until they can be found somewhere suitable. I know 20,000 shared around the country could mean each council only gets 2-300 but when a city like mine only allocates 400 homes a year & has 40,000 waiting for a home it's the way it will need to be. I've been watching Flight Radar over the last couple of days & judging by all the movement of military planes, I wonder if there is more going on than just rescue flights, there have been a lot of fighter planes around, lots more than usual, both British & American maybe air strikes to come?

I think for many people, the situation where they live, and individual circumstances will colour their opinion. Do you remember when the A8 countries joined the EU? Do you remember what happened? In some parts of the country there were huge numbers of people from Poland, Lithuania, Latvia Czechia, Slovakia etc arriving. That isn't me making things up, you can look at the stats if you can be bothered. The Labour government gave no thought to whether these new EU members should just be able to come or not, so they fudged the whole thing, as usual. Being middle class, Mr Blair, et al., thought that everyone who came would be middle class and professional. They weren't. Many had no skills apart from being willing to do backbreaking labour, they had no money they spoke no or little English, and they were entitled to apply for social housing, provided they were 'actively seeking work' or on the workers registration scheme. I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of that but, in many places, those people were housed by local authorities and that's when the problems began. To say that it didn't stop British-born people being housed is just being silly, because they did. And, to my mind, this has added to the current problem because what has been happening since then is that many people who have been waiting years to be housed and seen someone else who is a foreign national being housed now sees other foreign nationals arriving, and the thinking is 'bang goes my chances'. It's obvious that we have a crisis in social housing, it's obvious t why, it's obvious that no government has for many years given a toss about resolving the issues, BUT, for many people, all they see is someone else, someone who sticks out as being different being housed instead of them. As I said up thread, many people wait years in very difficult circumstances to be housed, they live very hard lives, they don't lack compassion in many cases, but they are fed up and worn out. .

@Nat6999

Where I live there are 40,000 people on the council waiting list & out of those 12,000 are in urgent need, the city have already taken in refugees from Somalia & Romania in recent years. I honestly think there will be a lot of complaints if the council bump a load of people straight to the top of the list when they have just arrived in the country. They should be put in temporary accommodation like B & B, hotels or hostels until they can be found somewhere suitable. I know 20,000 shared around the country could mean each council only gets 2-300 but when a city like mine only allocates 400 homes a year & has 40,000 waiting for a home it's the way it will need to be. I've been watching Flight Radar over the last couple of days & judging by all the movement of military planes, I wonder if there is more going on than just rescue flights, there have been a lot of fighter planes around, lots more than usual, both British & American maybe air strikes to come?

THere were under 1,400 refugees from Romania, an EU country, in the entire world in 2020. How many could your city have possibly taken in?

@LoislovesStewie

I think for many people, the situation where they live, and individual circumstances will colour their opinion. Do you remember when the A8 countries joined the EU? Do you remember what happened? In some parts of the country there were huge numbers of people from Poland, Lithuania, Latvia Czechia, Slovakia etc arriving. That isn't me making things up, you can look at the stats if you can be bothered. The Labour government gave no thought to whether these new EU members should just be able to come or not, so they fudged the whole thing, as usual. Being middle class, Mr Blair, et al., thought that everyone who came would be middle class and professional. They weren't. Many had no skills apart from being willing to do backbreaking labour, they had no money they spoke no or little English, and they were entitled to apply for social housing, provided they were 'actively seeking work' or on the workers registration scheme. I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of that but, in many places, those people were housed by local authorities and that's when the problems began. To say that it didn't stop British-born people being housed is just being silly, because they did. And, to my mind, this has added to the current problem because what has been happening since then is that many people who have been waiting years to be housed and seen someone else who is a foreign national being housed now sees other foreign nationals arriving, and the thinking is 'bang goes my chances'. It's obvious that we have a crisis in social housing, it's obvious t why, it's obvious that no government has for many years given a toss about resolving the issues, BUT, for many people, all they see is someone else, someone who sticks out as being different being housed instead of them. As I said up thread, many people wait years in very difficult circumstances to be housed, they live very hard lives, they don't lack compassion in many cases, but they are fed up and worn out. .

Goodness. What a strange point of view, to confuse to many unrelated things.

People arriving from the EEC (as it was) pr later EEA and EU have been proven by multiple studies to pay more tax and claim less in terms of welfare/ housing that people born in Britain, consistently, for decades. They also brought skills we needed that were essential to keep many areas of our economy functioning, including our health service.

As many posters have pointed out, asyl seekers are entirely separate to that. Different system not even competing with it. They cannot even register on a housing list as they have no recourse to public funds etc, and are housed in separate (awful) accommodation by the home office.

If you are feeling jealous of kindness (and tbh it's nowhere near the kindness it should be) towards families fleeing war and terror then you should take a good look at yourself. If you were born in the UK in the late 20th or 21st century you're already one of the luckiest 10% of humans alive today and one of the luckiest 0.1% of humans ever born.

A bit of perspective is needed.

@nosafeguardingadults

Want them to get help but wish also safe housing for domestic violence victims. Have been beaten and raped years risk of being killed. Life everyday at risk and the fear and constant lack of safety being on edge worse than the physical violence. Trapped nowhere safe to go.. Depends on your area but some councils don't care they break the law and get away with it. If they do accept legal duty they try to put you in dangerous unsafe mixed shared housing. The refugees need help but not safe or appropriate to put female victims of serious domestic violent in same housing cos lots are men and not their fault but they have trauma too but different and if men, deal with it differently. Ok if female refugees though bad to share with any human cos not dignity or safe if not your own safe space. Think they should be helped but government bad people and liars when saying they want to help refugees cos they want people to be safe. Government don't care if people not safe. The councils tell me not enough housing. When at risk of being murdered. Wish proper safe housing. For the refugees but also wish for people in my situation.

That's horrific and we all need to stand up for women's rights to make sure this doesn't happen. I am so sorry you are going through this, and have been through this? Are you safe now?

That is honestly though a totally separate issues to refugees. We have a long history here of helping them and in my opinion should continue to, as we'd wish for help ourselves and our families should the worst happen. But that does NOT mean strange men in your space: refugees are houses by the home office in separate accommodation.

I presume you've spoken to your MP about your situation? If so, what did they say? Many people on here are very knowledgable and may be able to help you.

I guess this type of bizarre comment highlights the problem with not teaching economics in school

I 'was taught' economics at school, university and postgraduate degrees, so I know what I'm saying. What an awful, patronising comment

So much misinformation, wishful thinking and living on 'la la' land on this thread and a systematic refusal to acknowledge the real issues our country is faced with. Pathetic

I do think that there has been a narrative of scarcity pushed by some papers and then some governments

That some can believe that scarcity is a narrative is beyond me.

@LoislovesStewie

I think for many people, the situation where they live, and individual circumstances will colour their opinion. Do you remember when the A8 countries joined the EU? Do you remember what happened? In some parts of the country there were huge numbers of people from Poland, Lithuania, Latvia Czechia, Slovakia etc arriving. That isn't me making things up, you can look at the stats if you can be bothered. The Labour government gave no thought to whether these new EU members should just be able to come or not, so they fudged the whole thing, as usual. Being middle class, Mr Blair, et al., thought that everyone who came would be middle class and professional. They weren't. Many had no skills apart from being willing to do backbreaking labour, they had no money they spoke no or little English, and they were entitled to apply for social housing, provided they were 'actively seeking work' or on the workers registration scheme. I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of that but, in many places, those people were housed by local authorities and that's when the problems began. To say that it didn't stop British-born people being housed is just being silly, because they did. And, to my mind, this has added to the current problem because what has been happening since then is that many people who have been waiting years to be housed and seen someone else who is a foreign national being housed now sees other foreign nationals arriving, and the thinking is 'bang goes my chances'. It's obvious that we have a crisis in social housing, it's obvious t why, it's obvious that no government has for many years given a toss about resolving the issues, BUT, for many people, all they see is someone else, someone who sticks out as being different being housed instead of them. As I said up thread, many people wait years in very difficult circumstances to be housed, they live very hard lives, they don't lack compassion in many cases, but they are fed up and worn out. .

Also other things to remember:

1. It was Tony Blair's Govt that really pushed the EU to accept the new EU8, for strategic/ security reasons. It wasn't pusjed on us, the UK pushed for it when France, Germany and others were reluctant.

2. There was an option on acceptance of the new members to massively limit how many people could move to the UK, for years. The UK (under Blair then Brown) decided not to do so. With good reason actually, because EU immigration to the UK is massively beneficial to us. This has been proved again and again,

3. Nobody gets priority on housing lists by "being foreign". Honestly. 🙄🤣 This is just bonkers and it doesn't matter if idiots believe this because, well, they're wrong and it's made up nonsense. I'm not going to start caring about people's beliefs in sky fairies or pink spaghetti monsters, either, unless they have any evidence to back up their claims...

@mustlovegin

I do think that there has been a narrative of scarcity pushed by some papers and then some governments

That some can believe that scarcity is a narrative is beyond me.

Well, it patently is. Look around.

So pleased to read that so many people want to help these refugees. It’s a shame so many people don’t have any empathy.

We all share this world. And there’s only one race. The human race.