Where will the refugees coming to the UK live?

[Meeklynamechanged]

In no way a goady thread, I fully support helping the people fleeing such horrid circumstances, but genuine question.. where will they live? Where do we put people?

Where I live we have people waiting 10 years for a council property. Most areas around the UK have a huge deficit in available housing that doesn't meet demand.

With so many families stuck in overcrowded hostels and B&B's, families of 5 in 1 bed flats, I can't see where all of the required the housing will come from?

•I totally see your concerns and I'm not saying we should let people in necessarily but 20,000 isn't really going to make much difference tbf. 100,000 entirely different story

It really wouldn't be. This is over several years according to Priti Patel. Hundreds of thousands of people move to the UK every year. In fact, our economy cannot function properly without this. This will make no difference to life for anybody other than the terrorised families who it saves.

@Baystard

These aren't just people. They're doctors, nurses, vets, carers, lorry drivers, firefighters, dentists, engineers, scientists. Etc. We need all of those things, we should recognise that not only is it a humanitarian necessity for us to help, but as a country we are in desperate need of their skills!

Compassion is one thing but it spills into hysterical hyperbole when people start making stuff like this up.

@Fangdango

The idea that we shouldn't have an opinion on this (or any policy) if we don't pay income tax is just a throwback to the system where only property owners were allowed to vote, surely?

Huh? Surely the people paying tax should have a say in how it is spent? That's the whole idea of collectively pooling resources for social goods. That was one of the great unfairnesses of the Brexit "vote"; disenfranchising 3 million people who live here and pay tax based solely on particular countries they were born in having been excluded. That cannot be right, to demand financial contributions to a society then say to the people who are paying for it "nope, not up to you".

[quote Theythinkitsalloveritisnow]@Kidsteens I just want to acknowledge your posts because so many people seem to be ignoring them- maybe inconvenient? The conditions you are living in are fucking appalling. And all the posters handwringing will move on from the refugee problem as well, in about a week . This is the nasty side of Mumsnet, a middle class mummy bubble and total indifference to the people living in poverty in the UK. I mean the poster who thought you shouldn't have posted the picture of the rat because it was upsetting . Clueless. And they congratulate themselves on their empathy[/quote]
Thank you . In some ways I'm lucky . I could have been stuck in a hostel where it would have been much worse . I would not be the first or last to stay in a place like this. I think run down property's are used as temporary accommodation. I have been in 4 temporary so far and they have all been simlar. I'm being moved again soon onto my 5th temporary I'm extremely stressed and upset about it as I have no idea where I will be put. And it will cost me alot of money to get it in a liveable condition.

@Fangdango

The idea that we shouldn't have an opinion on this (or any policy) if we don't pay income tax is just a throwback to the system where only property owners were allowed to vote, surely?

To be clear, obviously anybody can have an opinion. The issue is that anybody who is paying towards the collective effort to fund social goods should get a say about how that money is spent. Nothing to do with what people own, but what they are contributing to society and our shared resources.

Compassion is one thing but it spills into hysterical hyperbole when people start making stuff like this up

You have very strange ideas of what constitutes hysterical hyperbole. There are numerous posts on this thread that fit that definition more than that sane and rational observation.

@paddlingon

I was trying to make the point that economics are a little more complicated than this,

It's not magical. They are real notes coming out of people's pockets FFS!

Yes taxation is one source of income, some from individuals, some from corporations.

But the national debt and how that is serviced also has a big impact on a country's finances.

The chancellor of the exchequer doesn't work out how much money he wants to give out by just counting notes currently in circulation.

It doesn't mean that setting spending is simple, obviously tax returns have an impact.

Huge amounts of extra money can be created, for quantitative easing for example but obviously this can have a very negative impact on an economy if it goes wrong.

Large amounts of a country's money are notional, we abandoned the gold standard in 1931.

Many people do not understand the financial system at all, sadly. They really don't get that these are just "tokens" whose value is propped up only by the fact that they are perceived to have value, that the BOE can do quantitive easing, that bank loans/ debt "create" money and repaying debt effectively extinguises it, the interrelationship between private and Government debt, that tax is not about "paying for public services" but controlling inflation, and fundamentally that if people want life in the UK to improve then they need to start questioning why productivity in the UK is among the worst in Europe or the OECD. It's quite obvious to me that the decision not to teach economics to people as part of compulsory education in state schools is deliberate.

To be clear, obviously anybody can have an opinion. The issue is that anybody who is paying towards the collective effort to fund social goods should get a say about how that money is spent. Nothing to do with what people own, but what they are contributing to society and our shared resources

The way you get your say in how taxes are spent is by voting. A right which people not paying income tax etc have also. For very good reasons.

@Fangdango

To be clear, obviously anybody can have an opinion. The issue is that anybody who is paying towards the collective effort to fund social goods should get a say about how that money is spent. Nothing to do with what people own, but what they are contributing to society and our shared resources

The way you get your say in how taxes are spent is by voting. A right which people not paying income tax etc have also. For very good reasons.

No they do not. Kids pay no income tax and can't vote for example. The groups of people who live here and those who can vote here are like a venn diagram with largely overlapping circles. But the group of people who pay tax here and the group who can vote should absolutely allign. That means all that pay income taxes should be able to vote, as well as some others.

Thank you . In some ways I'm lucky . I could have been stuck in a hostel where it would have been much worse . I would not be the first or last to stay in a place like this. I think run down property's are used as temporary accommodation. I have been in 4 temporary so far and they have all been simlar. I'm being moved again soon onto my 5th temporary I'm extremely stressed and upset about it as I have no idea where I will be put. And it will cost me alot of money to get it in a liveable condition.

This sounds absolutely awful and you are not lucky. Nobody should have to live in this situation. I have lived in such rundown places before, but not with children. It's a disgrace to our society that this can happen even temporarily let alone "temporary" being for years and years with endless disruption and moving repeatedly.

We need our Government to sort this out and to help vulnerable refugees. It doesn't have to be either/or. I am so sorry for your situation, I can imagine how stressed out your must be with no stability.

We need our Government to sort this out and to help vulnerable refugees. It doesn't have to be either/or. I am so sorry for your situation, I can imagine how stressed out your must be with no stability.

I absolutely agree with this.

[quote Theythinkitsalloveritisnow]@Kidsteens I just want to acknowledge your posts because so many people seem to be ignoring them- maybe inconvenient? The conditions you are living in are fucking appalling. And all the posters handwringing will move on from the refugee problem as well, in about a week . This is the nasty side of Mumsnet, a middle class mummy bubble and total indifference to the people living in poverty in the UK. I mean the poster who thought you shouldn't have posted the picture of the rat because it was upsetting . Clueless. And they congratulate themselves on their empathy[/quote]
100% this. ^

Unfortunately for people like @Itsmeagainandagain and you @Theythinkitsalloveritisnow there seems to be a bunch of hand-wringing, liberal leftie, yummy-mummies on here this evening, who have no clue whatsoever what life is like for many people in the UK.

Struggling financially to make ends meet, having to go to food banks even when they are working, not knowing if they will have a job or a home this time next year, never being able to afford a holiday, dreading the kids having a school trip because they know they can't afford it, never EVER be able to get social housing, and never having more than a fiver in the bank at the end of each month.

As you say, the fact is that the wannabe do-gooders (on this thread,) wouldn't give a spare room to a refugee in a million years, and they wouldn't even want to live within a MILE of them. They pay lip service til they're blue in the face, but it's all hot air. As has been said, if they care THAT much, why don't they give up one of their spare rooms to a homeless person off the street in this country tomorrow!

They call anyone 'racist' and 'bigoted' if they DARE to refuse to kow-tow to them, and agree we should all give a bedroom to the refugees. Yet THEY are more bigoted than the ones they accuse of bigotry. Patting each other on the back, congratulating each other on how amazingly 'tolerant' and wonderful they are, and trying to out-woke one another with each passing post they submit. Nauseating, and yet hilarious to watch!

Just ignoring the very real issues that MILLIONS of people in the UK have with poverty and homelessness is sickening. And if I hear the 'why don't the British Royal Family give up THEIR accommodation' line trotted out ONE more time, I swear I'm gonna lose my fucking shit.

What about all the 100s of 1000s of super rich people (mostly MEN) in the middle east, and America, and other parts of the world, who have BILLIONS of pounds, and multiple dozens of properties/ palaces/ mansions etc. Why don't THEY give some of THEIR shit up?! Give it a fucking rest with the Royal Family whingeing. It's pathetic and predictable!

To be honest though, I can't even be arsed to argue with these liberal lefties who accuse anyone who doesn't think like them of being racist and bigoted,. They disgust me so much.

Someone said on Twitter earlier 'why did Afghanistan not fight for their country, and why should it be up to everyone else to pick up the pieces?'

May sound harsh (to some) but many people agreed and thought this person had a point.

Oh lord, she’s off again.

kidsteens I'm so sorry to hear of the stress and issues you are having with temporary accommodation. I'm sure some people have no idea how families in temp accommodation live. It's just filled with uncertainty and hurdle after hurdle.

Have you spoken to someone like Shelter for advice? Apologies if you have. 💐

No they do not. Kids pay no income tax and can't vote for example. The groups of people who live here and those who can vote here are like a venn diagram with largely overlapping circles. But the group of people who pay tax here and the group who can vote should absolutely allign. That means all that pay income taxes should be able to vote, as well as some others.

Fair point - I may have misunderstood you? There were a couple of posts from people upthread suggesting that only those paying income taxes should be consulted. My point was that we don't make tax, property ownership etc criteria for voters' rights - aka share in policy making.

Not sure I'd agree with extending the franchise to everyone paying income tax - temporary residents, foreign citizens etc. People who choose to come and work here (or who pay capital gains tax or VAT here) wouldn't necessarily expect that, would they? But I don't know much about the disenfranchised groups you mention and I don't think we disagree on the point I tried to make.

I’m struggling to understand why people don’t think we should help these poor people!

Yes there’s shit going on here, but fuck me, the shut they have to put up with would get far worse. These people are literally going to have the worst possible life imaginable, particularly the women, if they are forced to stay there.

In the grand scheme of things, 20,000 people is nothing, especially when we’ll be helping protect them from potentially death.

Everyone here is entitled to an education. There are jobs and yes things are expensive but some people don’t help themselves either….

@TableFlowerss

I’m struggling to understand why people don’t think we should help these poor people!

Yes there’s shit going on here, but fuck me, the shut they have to put up with would get far worse. These people are literally going to have the worst possible life imaginable, particularly the women, if they are forced to stay there.

In the grand scheme of things, 20,000 people is nothing, especially when we’ll be helping protect them from potentially death.

Everyone here is entitled to an education. There are jobs and yes things are expensive but some people don’t help themselves either….

Oh dear God. ^ The worrying thing is, you really believe what you're saying.

@PwySyddYma

kidsteens I'm so sorry to hear of the stress and issues you are having with temporary accommodation. I'm sure some people have no idea how families in temp accommodation live. It's just filled with uncertainty and hurdle after hurdle.

Have you spoken to someone like Shelter for advice? Apologies if you have. 💐

I have done everything I can. Medical letters. For my son who has asd. Support letters from autism support and from the school. I just try and make it normal for the kids I always make sure we make it into a home best we can.

Are there enough PCR tests?

Oh dear God. ^ wink The worrying thing is, you really believe what you're saying. confused

Yeah too right I do!! Im sick of hearing folk moaning about the UK helping these poor people!

Have some compassion for a humanitarian crisis for Christ sake!

@MercyBooth

Are there enough PCR tests?

Yes

Someone said on Twitter earlier 'why did Afghanistan not fight for their country, and why should it be up to everyone else to pick up the pieces?'

This is a mess of the U.K./US making, I listened to someone involved in training the Afghani army explain that they had been trained in air based combat and when the US pulled out they took the equipment and munitions needed for air based combat with them, that teams wouid come in and provide the same basic training to the same people over and over again, the man who led the U.K. forces spoke on the news tonight of needing to match training to the local field of battle and the local methods of fighting to create sustainable opposition “should we ever do this again” - god forbid.

Disastrous foreign policy created this mess, and the consequences are to be borne predominantly by women and children. I hardly think we can call it a job well done and wipe our hands of it.

@TableFlowerss

I’m struggling to understand why people don’t think we should help these poor people!

Yes there’s shit going on here, but fuck me, the shut they have to put up with would get far worse. These people are literally going to have the worst possible life imaginable, particularly the women, if they are forced to stay there.

In the grand scheme of things, 20,000 people is nothing, especially when we’ll be helping protect them from potentially death.

Everyone here is entitled to an education. There are jobs and yes things are expensive but some people don’t help themselves either….

You see the things about things being expensive but everyone gets an education is the kind of thing I was referring to really. It does come across as quite ignorant and patronising.

I do agree with what you say about the people in Afghanistan tho. And 20000 does seem very few- if the government actually do target women and children that would be great. But pretending that refugees being housed in social housing won't affect people already on the waiting list is just dishonest.

There was a woman who served a couple of tours in Afghanistan on Questiontime tonight. She worked with a lot of Afghan people, many of them women. She was absolutely incandescent that her work and her colleagues’ has been thrown away by the US and UK governments.

We owe those people. We’re responsible for the mess they find themselves in.

I've not read the full thread but I did do a site-wide search for mentions of the website below and it returned nothing, so I hope this isn't too duplicate-y :)

Where you can help
Find out which local councils are looking for help in your region
www.help-refugees-uk.service.gov.uk/

This both answers OP's question and lets you know the help needed in a particular area. The page just includes England councils so far, hopefully they will link it up to pages in other areas too.

You can click on an area in the list (reproduced below) to see which council(s) in that area are looking for help, then click on an individual council to see what help is needed (might be housing, job-related, sport / cultural activities, translation services etc) and can register to offer assistance if you're able to. I've expanded London in the list below, not all boroughs are involved (yet?).

• North East England
• North West England
• Yorkshire & the Humber
• East Midlands
• West Midlands
• East of England
• Greater London
--- Camden
--- Ealing
--- Hackney
--- Hammersmith and Fulham
--- Kingston upon Thames
--- Lambeth
--- Lewisham
• South East England
• South West England

I expect more places will be added too.

Jo