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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Where will the refugees coming to the UK live?

999 replies

Meeklynamechanged · 17/08/2021 22:16

In no way a goady thread, I fully support helping the people fleeing such horrid circumstances, but genuine question.. where will they live? Where do we put people?

Where I live we have people waiting 10 years for a council property. Most areas around the UK have a huge deficit in available housing that doesn't meet demand.

With so many families stuck in overcrowded hostels and B&B's, families of 5 in 1 bed flats, I can't see where all of the required the housing will come from?

OP posts:
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LemonRoses · 18/08/2021 18:00

Well said justamomentplease. These are mothers, daughters, sisters, husband’s. These are people as deserving of support and kindness as much, if not more than anyone else.

I think some have lost sight of how fortunate we are - just by being born in a wealthy nation. Often those complaining about sharing our resources are the very people who are happy to rely on support themselves, but want to deny it to others.

Very happy to have people living here, but it’s not ideal because we have no facilities at all. Very happy to pay 1p in the pound extra tax on higher rate money to pay for appropriate resources for the refugees. Very happy to let someone ahead of me for a GP appointment if they’ve arrived from such difficulties.

Parker231 · 18/08/2021 18:00

The U.K. government have announced that 2,000 former Afghan staff and their families have been evacuated from the country since June 22, 2021, as part of the Afghan Relocations and Assistance Policy.

The scheme was launched at the start of April and was brought in to help re-settle Afghan interpreters and other personnel who have worked with the UK in Afghanistan.

Under the policy, any current or former locally employed staff whose life is assessed to be under serious threat are offered priority relocation to the UK - regardless of their employment status, rank or role, or length of time served.

This group I imagine would get jobs quite quickly. Fluent in English and with transferable skills.

burritofan · 18/08/2021 18:02

Well said, @justamomentplease. We have similar backgrounds. It’s all just luck, luck and borders. I think people in Britain forget how easy it is to be an island nation

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/08/2021 18:02

Don't spoil it, mrsborisjohnson - especially from the standpoint of actual experience working with asylum seekers/refugees

They're all supposed to be skilled people, just yearning for a chance to make a contribution, remember?

Refreshpage · 18/08/2021 18:05

@LemonRoses

Well said justamomentplease. These are mothers, daughters, sisters, husband’s. These are people as deserving of support and kindness as much, if not more than anyone else.

I think some have lost sight of how fortunate we are - just by being born in a wealthy nation. Often those complaining about sharing our resources are the very people who are happy to rely on support themselves, but want to deny it to others.

Very happy to have people living here, but it’s not ideal because we have no facilities at all. Very happy to pay 1p in the pound extra tax on higher rate money to pay for appropriate resources for the refugees. Very happy to let someone ahead of me for a GP appointment if they’ve arrived from such difficulties.

Well said.
mrsborisjohnson · 18/08/2021 18:06

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Don't spoil it, mrsborisjohnson - especially from the standpoint of actual experience working with asylum seekers/refugees

They're all supposed to be skilled people, just yearning for a chance to make a contribution, remember?

Well, quite. I've no doubt the good intentions of those posting along those lines, but it's not quite as simple as that.
Kidsteens · 18/08/2021 18:06

@plodalong12

Yes it seems its not as bad as what they get ok...

mustlovegin · 18/08/2021 18:09

The majority of us are uni students (who pay double the amount a local does in tuition fees alone)

What? What do uni students have to do with illegal immigration or refugees?

Fangdango · 18/08/2021 18:10

@mrsborisjohnson

They will need a lot of help and support, not only just housing, schooling and health but also language support, familiarisation (how to set up a bank account, access health care etc), access to adult education which will lead to jobs and independence. Many refugees come from rural societies and have little experience of living and thriving in Western developed economies.

I've worked with people who had been given leave to remain, formerly asylum seekers and refugees, many from Afghanistan, and in my experience, the government schemes put in place 20 years ago that I was working on were wildly unrealistic. Many of these people were illiterate in their own language, never mind in English, so sitting in a classroom itself was a complete mystery to them (with a few highly educated exceptions), never mind learning to read and write in a foreign language, however, with the scheme they were on they were expected to become fluent and ready for work in a matter of a few months. Many had never had jobs, or had only worked for the family - shops, farming etc - so time-keeping and other aspects of the world of work was something entirely new to them. They have come from cultures steeped in homophobia and misogyny, which may also cause problems with employability, socially, street harassment, making pests of themselves to young women etc. Many asked me how to 'get a woman' (including men who admitted they were married but it was just 'expected') and some slept with prostitutes. The majority of these migrants then and now are young men, usually around 80-90%, which makes me wonder about the poor women that have been left behind. As young men who had never lived independently, they struggled with basic self-care, cooking, hygiene etc, and needed continual support for filling in the myriad forms required to live in Britain - benefits, housing, health, taxation, tv licence, driving licence - some got in trouble for driving without licences. Of course, some will integrate and flourish, given time and enough of the right support, but we're talking about a hell of a lot of monetary investment first, and a support system that simply wasn't in place when I was working in this area. If you don't have this, what you end up with is ghettos, as can be seen in other parts of Europe where the streets are full of immigrant men but no women walking around in these areas, because they face harassment or worse. I would hate to see that happen in the UK, and so a plan for integration is needed. I of course think the UK should help those in need, but the plan has to be realistic in terms of the numbers to be let in and the kind of support they are given, and the money will have to come from somewhere. Those speaking of the EU workers who have left the UK and the foreign students no longer coming in fail to realise that these groups lived independently and were bringing money into the country and paying taxes, whereas it's likely that a lot of these immigrants will be on benefits for years. This is simply my experience, I'm not trying to demonise the migrants, many of whom it was a pleasure to meet, but people need to be aware exactly how much support they are likely to need and how much money that will cost.

Lots of work has been done on this since - teaching, trauma, integration, adult education - with more in progress. England unfortunately doesn't make the same provision for asylum seekers' education as Scotland, Wales, Germany, Sweden etc. That will affect outcomes, so your point is important.

The current wave of Afghan refugees will be better educated, on average, than 20 years ago. That's a starting point. And for those who bring some professional skill and for healthy adults who can acquire one - we've "saved" the cost of years of schooling, child benefit etc. So some time on benefits will not make them a net loss ( I know you didn't suggest this).

Best thing you can do for asylum seekers is get them processed and entitled to work asap. Integration, self-support, mental well-being start there, whether it's skilled or less skilled work. You are right that we can't just let people in and assume they'll be fine. But there are known risks and remedies here, and we need to keep pressure up to help asylum seekers integrate so they can work.

paddlingon · 18/08/2021 18:11

It seems reasonable to imagine that they will be a mixture of people and backgrounds.

If the withdrawal had been more sensibly managed then a more thoughtful matching process would have been possible.

The Syrian refugees I have met were carefully selected families, they struggled with language at first, culture shock and a total loss of status but were able to successfully overcome most of these issues and build new lives.

I have known unaccompanied Afghan minors who struggled with significant mental health issues and integration issues and ones who flew through school and obtained first class degrees.

There isn't one refugee type.
There does need to be proper support for any refugees and not a Blythe assumption that they won't need significant additional support however.

mrsborisjohnson · 18/08/2021 18:12

Another thing I didn't mention is how deeply traumatised some of these people will be, and how they may be suffering as a result from mental health problems, which will also act as a barrier to integration and employability. This is something many will need help for, help they probably won't get due to underfunding of mental health provision, as well as cultural factors that would mean it probably wouldn't even occur to them to consider seeking help in this area.

LoislovesStewie · 18/08/2021 18:12

[quote paddlingon]@Kidsteens the conditions you are living in are bad.
The refugees in Afghanistan aren't going to impact your ability to gain different housing.
It is the underfunding of LA and HA housing that has done this.

Asylum seekers housing has a different income stream. [/quote]
So how do you think they are housed permanently, then?

mustlovegin · 18/08/2021 18:12

a plan for integration is needed. I of course think the UK should help those in need, but the plan has to be realistic in terms of the numbers to be let in and the kind of support they are given, and the money will have to come from somewhere

^This, a 100 times

mustlovegin · 18/08/2021 18:13

Asylum seekers housing has a different income stream

How is this magical 'income stream' funded then?

Parker231 · 18/08/2021 18:16

@mustlovegin

Asylum seekers housing has a different income stream

How is this magical 'income stream' funded then?

Taxation - and more likely a tax increase to cover Brexit, Covid and Afghanistan.
Pixxie7 · 18/08/2021 18:18

Yes it’s a problem but something has to be done.

Porcupineintherough · 18/08/2021 18:19

@mrsborisjohnson how do your figures of 80-90% of asylum seekers being young men marry up with the figures given previously of 60% of asylum seekers being men and 40% women?

I also work with asylum seekers and I recognise some of what you say but it does not accurately represent the majority of the people I've met.

Whammyyammy · 18/08/2021 18:19

@mustlovegin

Asylum seekers housing has a different income stream

How is this magical 'income stream' funded then?

From the very same source as normal housing.
Livinghereinallentown · 18/08/2021 18:22

@Sarahlou63

*To whom?

Are most of the refugees from Afghanistan male?*

FFS. They are human. Just like you aspire to be.

It’s a terrible situation but there’s no way I’d have some unknown male living in my house. You have no idea whether any of these males are actually wannabe terrorists or genuine refugees.
Fangdango · 18/08/2021 18:22

@mustlovegin

The majority of us are uni students (who pay double the amount a local does in tuition fees alone)

What? What do uni students have to do with illegal immigration or refugees?

I thought the point was perfectly clear.

As I understood it, someone disputed the data showing migrants from outside the EU make a net contribution. This poster explained that this is perfectly plausible - these migrants are mostly students paying higher fees or people admitted with proof of high assets / earning power. Refugees and asylum seekers don't normally meet these criteria for entry, but since they're a small proportion of migrants from outside the EU, they don't bring the average contribution down.

No, not all refugees will make it into the middle classes. Some will thrive. Some will need support. Some will work in highly skilled jobs. Some will work in jobs we don't want, recently vacated by EU seasonal migrants perhaps.

Their children will grow up with our children, will. acquire English more easily than their parents, will counteract our declining birth rate a little, and will join our workforce, given the right opportunities.

CayrolBaaaskin · 18/08/2021 18:22

I absolutely think we do have an obligation to help asylum seekers and house them. However we need to be honest about this- it will require money from the public purse. Also it will impact on others who want housed. More demand means less availability unless supply is increased.

We do need to do something about the housing crisis and we shouldn’t make people feel bad for being concerned about it.

Audit · 18/08/2021 18:23

People fund everything. The state partitions parts of income and parts of capital and decides where it goes. Those clever accountants that communists despise really do have benefits after all.

paddlingon · 18/08/2021 18:23

The income stream is from central government.

Obviously if you don't want to spend any taxes on refugees you will object to this.

However this is not money that has been taken from local housing budgets.

People currently in poor temporary accommodation are not impacted one way or the other as the money was never going to their accommodation needs.

It is false equivalence to set asylum seekers against those in LA temporary housing.

If we don't want to house interpreters fleeing for their lives then I suggest we don't use them and promise further support if needed.

Get cross with the governments that made these decisions not the people who took the government at their word.

All monies spent by central government are raised the same way various taxes, charges and debt.

mrsborisjohnson · 18/08/2021 18:23

Lots of work has been done on this since - teaching, trauma, integration, adult education - with more in progress. England unfortunately doesn't make the same provision for asylum seekers' education as Scotland, Wales, Germany, Sweden etc. That will affect outcomes, so your point is important.
When I was last working in this area, funding for language provision was being cut as - surprise surprise - the unrealistic targets that had been plucked out of the air weren't being met.

The current wave of Afghan refugees will be better educated, on average, than 20 years ago.
I wondered about this and admit I'm not fully up to date on the kind of progress that has been made in the education system over there. I imagine that rurally little has changed though, and I'm mainly talking about men as this is the vast majority of migrants, so any advances in the education of females - as welcome as that is! - doesn't really factor in. I feel greatly for the women of Afghanistan right now and I wish that they were made the priority, seeing as they have the most to lose, frankly, but of course there would be outrage if women were ever prioritised over men.

Parker231 · 18/08/2021 18:23

Comment from Sir Bob Neill MP in the House of Commons today about an at risk group.

“Some of those most at risk in Afghanistan are the 250 women judges serving in the country who, as the @thebarcouncil and @TheLawSociety have highlighted, are in particular danger. They have put their lives on the line to protect the rule of law and must not be abandoned.”

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