Where will the refugees coming to the UK live?

[Meeklynamechanged]

In no way a goady thread, I fully support helping the people fleeing such horrid circumstances, but genuine question.. where will they live? Where do we put people?

Where I live we have people waiting 10 years for a council property. Most areas around the UK have a huge deficit in available housing that doesn't meet demand.

With so many families stuck in overcrowded hostels and B&B's, families of 5 in 1 bed flats, I can't see where all of the required the housing will come from?

Sorry, I didn’t log on to check this thread until just now, but I see a PP has already posted a link to the charity :)

Haven’t RTFT but quite shocked at people acting like only the super rich can afford to house a refugee (I am certainly not rich: our annual income is less than 30k, but we live in a 3 bedroom house, in an area where housing is fairly affordable, and we only have 1 DC at the moment, so we have space for another person in our house). Also a bit disappointed by the “oh, go polish your halo” reactions.

The money will come from taxation of the workers, who are also the group who will share spare rooms and donate food and clothes.

Meanwhile the richest in society will buy their DC houses and keep their stocks and shares money in their families.

Porcupineintherough Speaking purely from personal experience, working in this area for a few years, it was an 80-90% male client base for the organisation I worked for. I don't know where you'd look for a definitive figure on this, but here Douglas Murray claims it's 87% males, 74% aged 17-39.
www.spectator.co.uk/article/turning-the-tide-how-to-deal-with-britains-new-migrant-crisis#

@justamomentplease

We should be helping people, and not putting them into what are effectively slums.

My grandparents came here as war refugees from Eastern Europe at the end of WW2. My GD had served the English as a spy and my GM and her children (my DF wasn't born then) had to flee from the Nazis. When my GF was located he was also allowed to come here to join them and the whole family settled permanently (and went on to have my DF, who is as 'English' as they come at face value as he was born and raised here and he then married a local woman, my DM).

They, along with lots of people from their original area, remained, were given housing for life (v different times!) and worked and paid tax until retirement. They were good, skilled, hardworking people who were just unlucky in that they were born somewhere where it stopped being safe to live and they literally risked death by being there. There are still lots of the descendants living locally - we're all on nodding/friendly hello terms, having been through schools together - the third generation is being born/young children now as the last of the original generation have died out over the last decade.

Without that help and chance so many families here wouldn't exist. I wouldn't hesitate to help out a refugee - I wouldn't personally give a room in my home to any stranger, British or not, because I have young children but as for donations, volunteering etc then I will be looking to see what I can do to help.

We're all human beings at the end of the day, and we're only born where we are out of luck.

All of this human interest is all well and good - but as you admitted yourself these are different times. In the time you mention decent jobs were plentiful for people with no formal education or skills. Jobs that enables them to afford the basics and then some. Now it’s zero hour contracts, rising rents and house prices, and little chance of working your way up from an entry level job (which are filled by Masters and PhD graduates anyway).

As as @mrsborisjohnson stated these people will need lots of support over a long period of time.
It’s possible to donate money/lobby the government to provide the funds but at the same time understand the view of British people who look at them and go ‘oh great, more competition for scarce resources’

When they gain refugee status - years not months - they gain the same rights to work or claim benefits as anyone else. So they can join the queue, rent privately, claim housing benefit - they'll be subject to the same conditions around seeking work etc as everyone else. They aren't pushed ahead of anyone at that point.

Until they have the right to work, they are in emergency housing, funded from taxation but not from social housing budgets. Similarly, they get their 35 pounds a week allowance, not benefits. Asylum seeker is a temporary, emergency condition

Meanwhile the richest in society will buy their DC houses

I think the rich, middle class and working class will have to fund their kids houses. There is a strategic and chronic under supply of housing in the UK.

I know somebody who has waited 18 years for refugee status.

Firstbornunicorn - it isn't just about having extra space though. Many people struggle with their household bills as it is, so having an extra person in the house using facilities just wouldn't be doable.

I house shared when I was younger. Never again, I just wouldn't be able to do that now.

In the time you mention decent jobs were plentiful for people with no formal education or skills. Jobs that enables them to afford the basics and then some.

In the three months to July 2021, there was an average of 953 thousand job vacancies in the United Kingdom, around 600 thousand more vacancies when compared with the same period in 2020.

Seems like there are plenty of jobs around and no need for anyone to be unemployed because of a few refugees. Every day the news carries stories from hospitality, social care, catering, retail, haulage and construction where employers cannot recruit. Jobs are still plentiful but some people don’t want them.

While a slight tangent there are still a surprising amount of tax breaks for being a landlord even after recent changes. ( I was one until recently)

This is the government giving money to landlords.

There is a lot that could be done in the housing sector before cutting off housing for asylum seekers.

There has been research done over the last decade into the idea of scarcity that
@TractorAndHeadphones is talking about. It is a concept exploited heavily by Trump in the USA.
The opposing view being the theory of abundance.
Because actually there are probably enough houses in the UK, there isn't a need to become Marxist and start claiming property.
But more subtle push, pull strategies could be used to change behavior.

The housing situation is a political one which 5k people from Afghanistan will make little to no difference in.

@mrsborisjohnson

Lots of work has been done on this since - teaching, trauma, integration, adult education - with more in progress. England unfortunately doesn't make the same provision for asylum seekers' education as Scotland, Wales, Germany, Sweden etc. That will affect outcomes, so your point is important. When I was last working in this area, funding for language provision was being cut as - surprise surprise - the unrealistic targets that had been plucked out of the air weren't being met.

The current wave of Afghan refugees will be better educated, on average, than 20 years ago.
I wondered about this and admit I'm not fully up to date on the kind of progress that has been made in the education system over there. I imagine that rurally little has changed though, and I'm mainly talking about men as this is the vast majority of migrants, so any advances in the education of females - as welcome as that is! - doesn't really factor in. I feel greatly for the women of Afghanistan right now and I wish that they were made the priority, seeing as they have the most to lose, frankly, but of course there would be outrage if women were ever prioritised over men.

As often happens, women have made some progress, men, more. So about 60 percent of girls were receiving secondary education - up from 55 in last decade. And about 75 percent of boys - up from 60. You're right about rural-urban split - 50 percent vs 80 percent. I understand that women are to be prioritized once those who've worked directly with UK forces are out, and that will be easy to do with third country processing. You'll still have male asylum seekers arriving here in lorries and dinghies from all over the place, but the government will be able to choose the 20,000 Afghan refugees in this scheme.

What a shame about the funding cuts. I'm not surprised to hear it, unfortunately. Are you based in England? Not anti-English posturing, but any events / projects I've worked on have suggested language support is deficient, there. There are places (Germany!) where creating jobs in language teaching to support refugees would be seen as a win-win situation.

Fangdango Hi, yes, this was England.

@sadperson16

I know somebody who has waited 18 years for refugee status.

What a dreadful waste of a life. Poor soul. I know asylum seekers volunteering and living off church breakfasts and donations while they wait to be allowed to work. We should push on removing barriers to work. Everyone gains.

Well said @MrsBorisJohnson.

I worked with refugees for many years. (Home Office).

Most are young, single, uneducated and unskilled men from cultures where women are deemed to be second class citizens and Western women are seen as fair game sexually. Whilst many are nice enough, the chances of them ever integrating successfully and not being a burden to the tax payer are slim to none existant.

@THisbackwithavengeance

Well said *@MrsBorisJohnson*.

I worked with refugees for many years. (Home Office).

Most are young, single, uneducated and unskilled men from cultures where women are deemed to be second class citizens and Western women are seen as fair game sexually. Whilst many are nice enough, the chances of them ever integrating successfully and not being a burden to the tax payer are slim to none existant.

My experience is the comkplete opposite ( teacher/fostercarer/volunteer in homeless shelter/ host to refugees in my own home) many gain qualifications and go on to make a huge contribution to society, both through their professional and personal lives, and through tax

Does the Home Office track refugee outcomes / education? Would you not have been dealing with asylum seekers there, in fairly limited contexts? We certainly don't have any Home Office support for education and integration of refugees.

@paddlingon - the government changes local authority budgets from year to year including housing budgets. The fact that the asylum budget is out of central government funds is neither here nor there - so is the majority of local government funding.

I’m not saying poor housing is the fault of immigrants (far from it) but the idea that more demand has no impact on housing is simply a lie.

Also what “tax breaks” are you claiming private landlords get?

@LemonRoses

In the time you mention decent jobs were plentiful for people with no formal education or skills. Jobs that enables them to afford the basics and then some.

In the three months to July 2021, there was an average of 953 thousand job vacancies in the United Kingdom, around 600 thousand more vacancies when compared with the same period in 2020.

Seems like there are plenty of jobs around and no need for anyone to be unemployed because of a few refugees. Every day the news carries stories from hospitality, social care, catering, retail, haulage and construction where employers cannot recruit. Jobs are still plentiful but some people don’t want them.

So your only metric is the number of vacancies you see advertised? Are all of these vacancies spread out evenly across all areas? How much do these pay and have you cross referenced that with the cost of living in said areas? I’d suggest you google the phenomena of ‘underemployment’. Catering hospitality etc can’t find staff not because nobody’s willing to work but because they subject staff to zero hour contracts with little benefits. Social care workers are overworked and underpaid. And if these jobs need to be topped up by benefits then it’s still the taxpayer shouldering the burden after all.

@THisbackwithavengeance

Well said *@MrsBorisJohnson*.

I worked with refugees for many years. (Home Office).

Most are young, single, uneducated and unskilled men from cultures where women are deemed to be second class citizens and Western women are seen as fair game sexually. Whilst many are nice enough, the chances of them ever integrating successfully and not being a burden to the tax payer are slim to none existant.

Uneducated does not mean unskilled. For example ,I knew a young man who was totally illiterate, but who had been working many years in a hospital in Kandahar, as a nurse and even carrying out operations himself.

He couldn't get into medicine because he couldn't read or write, but became a HCP while studying English and maths, and is now very high up in nursing.

Incidently, he already knew all the maths, just not how it looked on paper, he had been doing it in his head for years.

Of course he had never been to school, and came across as uneducated, but actually knew far more human biology than our human biology A level teacher did, and far more maths than many of us

@Livelovebehappy

Madness to offer up a spare room to a stranger, of whom you know nothing about. Would people do this for a random person off the streets here in the UK? Probably not, so why do it for a refugee? I wouldn’t risk my family’s safety by inviting a stranger to live in my home.

Then don't do it, HTH

Most are young, single, uneducated and unskilled men from cultures where women are deemed to be second class citizens and Western women are seen as fair game sexually.
As uncomfortable as this may make some people to hear, yes, I'm afraid this was to some extent true, although not by any means entirely.
Whilst many are nice enough, the chances of them ever integrating successfully and not being a burden to the tax payer are slim to none existant.
I wouldn't go THAT far, but integration can take a very long time and really depends on a lot of factors - how much support is available, their own personal abilities in adapting, intelligence, mental health, whether they become ghettoised or not, how much they embrace the culture etc.

@MrsBorisJohnson You have hit the nail right on the head.

I also used to work to work with refugees and as a Jew I have many family who were refugees or children of refugees.

But I’m sick of the sneering and mistruths and magical thinking. As a whole, refugees (but not immigrants in general who have been net contributiors as a whole) do need investment. And that comes from the treasury.

@paddlingon

While a slight tangent there are still a surprising amount of tax breaks for being a landlord even after recent changes. ( I was one until recently)

This is the government giving money to landlords.

There is a lot that could be done in the housing sector before cutting off housing for asylum seekers.

There has been research done over the last decade into the idea of scarcity that
@TractorAndHeadphones is talking about. It is a concept exploited heavily by Trump in the USA.
The opposing view being the theory of abundance.
Because actually there are probably enough houses in the UK, there isn't a need to become Marxist and start claiming property.
But more subtle push, pull strategies could be used to change behavior.

The housing situation is a political one which 5k people from Afghanistan will make little to no difference in.

That’s true - everything is political. And while we don’t have infinite money we don’t have as little as postulated either. ‘Scarcity’ as a concept may be artificially created by political choices - but to it’s real to the people who bear it’s effects right now. In the housing lists they’re on, the rising rent they pay, etc etc.

I will be donating to the cause and writing letters to my MP. I will push for government funding etc. But equally I won’t demonise people who see refugees come into their area and go ‘wait, where are they going to stay, what jobs are they going to do, what is this going to cost me?’

I do admit that I can’t form a full picture because there’s very little data on where refugees are sent and how many.

Also like many other things numbers are a tipping point. 5,000 refugees scattered all over the country will be easily absorbed. Hundreds of thousands probably not. It’s also possible to , while acknowledging humanitarian need understand that at some point it won’t be feasible

When they gain refugee status - years not months - they gain the same rights to work or claim benefits as anyone else. So they can join the queue, rent privately, claim housing benefit - they'll be subject to the same conditions around seeking work etc as everyone else. They aren't pushed ahead of anyone at that point

But they are placed ahead on arrival, and stay ahead for many years.

Also, as PP pointed out, what's the difference if it's LA budget, central budget, etc. All of this has to be paid by all of us (Council Tax, Income Tax, VAT, etc), It is apparent that many on this thread perhaps pay very little tax, hence don't care as it doesn't directly affect them