To think dd’s behaviour is a little worrying?

[WhoisRebecca]

Dd, 13 doesn’t really talk about her feelings. She’s extremely mature, conscientious and high achieving and so I haven’t noticed her odd behaviours straight away. She comes across in many ways as perfect - very responsible, on the student council at school, plays an instrument, lots of sensible friends etc.

She has a very strict routine at bedtime and constantly asks me what time it is. She said it’s because she likes to be in bed at 8 and asleep by 9. She sets an alarm for 6.30 am, even in school holidays and when we aren’t going anywhere.

She sometimes seems anxious and tearful but denies that anything is wrong. The current situation in Afghanistan has upset her, but even when I can see tears coming down her face she insists that she’s not crying. She doesn’t like listening to the news as she is extremely sensitive.

She doesn’t like going out with friends, although she does have lots of friends. She went to a sleepover once but got upset because the other girls kept her awake. She likes being at home and staying in our village.

She’s terrified of trains after a Year 6 assembly about the dangers of playing on railway tracks. Dd would never do anything like that, but unfortunately she now does not want to get on a train at all.

She enjoys baking but although she likes fresh bread, scones and cakes, she eats an extremely limited diet. There are lots of foods she doesn’t eat. She’s very slim although I don’t think she’s underweight. She doesn’t seem to have any issues with her body shape or concerns about her appearance- she’s just very fussy and quite controlled about what she will eat.

I’ve had a chat with her, but she just says nothing is wrong. I feel like something is worrying but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

@WhoisRebecca, your DD sounds like I was at her age.

High achieving, intelligent, plenty of friends, etc.

But I had what I now recognise to be OCD. I went on to develop full blown anorexia at 16.

It started with controlling little things and having routines around certain things at home, and then developed into obsessive hand washing, and then eventually anorexia. For me it was triggered by a huge amount of upheaval in short succession - the death of my grandmother, the breakdown of my parents' marriage and my older sister moving out. Everything that made me feel safe and secure was taken away and so academic achievement and utter control of my immediate environment and my body were my ways of coping.

I was very good at hiding how I was really feeling. It was only when my sister came home from uni, saw how thin I had become and forced me to tell her what was going on that I was given the support I needed.

You know something is up. You need to get your daughter some help now before she starts really damaging herself. I say this from personal experience but also as a teacher. Girls are exceptionally good at putting on a front. They can be dying inside and still be able to come to school with a smile and perform brilliantly academically and go shopping with their friends at the weekend and seem absolutely fantastically fine. I will forever be haunted by a former student who was just like this - life and soul of the party, lovely girl, always seemed so happy - and the week after school ended she threw herself under a train because she was so anxious about going to university. I don't mean to frighten you but you really mustn't ignore these signs that your daughter is struggling. Please get her some support. She really does need it, no matter how much she says she doesn't. Early intervention is so key.

We have our points we can relax on and those that are non negotiables.. so for example she leaves the house every day .. has to have some time relaxing away from exercising/ studying.. also must come down to the lounge for some time not always in the room . By having four or five must dos means the we will relax on the not wanting to go out / eat take aways etc

taniaannmarshall.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/moving-towards-a-female-profile-the-unique-characteristics-abilities-and-talents-of-asperwomen-adult-women-with-asperger-syndrome/

I thought asd too when I read your post. I don't know if you've read this article before but I found it very informative and highlights how it presents differently in females.

Just one tiny thought: if she is a bit rigid in her thinking, telling her to "Just do your best," in any situation can bring enormous pressure with it, even though it's meant to reassure. To a perfectionist, doing her best means going all out!

Can you model things being 'good enough' when they're a bit messy round the edges, OP? Perhaps say things like, "This is fine, it will do. Doesn't have to be perfect, does it?" And let the phrase "good enough" be heard often.

Can you engage her in some messy experimental cooking and have the family relish eating the results? She sounds afraid to fall below perfection to me, and that can be emotionally crippling.

Sounds very like me at a similar sort of age. Particularly the rigid timekeeping.

I obviously can't diagnose her with anything having just read what you read here. It might be worth seeing if you can get her seen by a professional for her anxiety, though.

Just don't be like my own DM who talked about my idiosyncrasies to all and sundry - anyone from relatives to her massage therapist - thinking that I didn't know; saying how worried she was about me and making it all about her; but never lifting a finger to actually get me any professional help. I was diagnosed with autism as an adult. I'm still working on my anxieties.

By the sounds of things though, your own experience and relationship with your DD will be different.

It's great that you have recognised these issues. Would suggest getting some counselling sorted now before everything snowballs.

Sorry about the third paragraph in the above post. As you can see, it is still a little bit raw. ❤

This sounds like it was written about my step sister.

Very bright and capable, had a circle of close friends but didn't tend to move out of that group so much. Was very ridged in her routine liked to eat her meals in a certain way. Was also very slim, though I wouldn't describe her food intake as disordered. For example she'd be happy to eat spaghetti bolognaise, but only if the pasta and sauce were separate on the plate.

If she ever did something that could be considered embarrassing she'd get extremely upset and, when she was very young, would often take herself off and hide in the house somewhere. For example, stay under her bed for 1-2 hours until she felt able to rejoin the family. I don't think she went on a sleepover until she was about 15.

She was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome at 16 years old.

Academically she's always been very able. Photographic memor. Got a first at Uni and did her masters. She's now a GP and is the absolute best company to be with. She has a partner and is very happy.

This is a useful guide to gradual exposure which might be of use.

Adding in between every step helps - the idea being you increase the anxiety slightly then breathe and relax until you're completely calm and happy.

Then STOP - don't be tempted to move to the next stage. Reason being is that the mind will learn to associate the activity with the last part of the experience - the relaxation - rather than the first part - the exposure, thereby making it a lot easier to pick up from that level the next time.

Honestly? It sounds like your DD has an ASD. I would have her screened.

I ticked off quite a few of these traits as a teen. Some I still do at 31, especially the routine/rigidity. I have just had an anxiety diagnosis. Think it's only the fact that being an already fussy eater at a boarding made me more into eating stuff I did like when I was able as opposed to controlling & excluding stuff from my diet that I didn't end up with anorexia.

I would watch for signs of both.

I had some similar traits to you daughter when I was younger, my Mum is very similar to me so I was just seen as taking after my Mum. I was part of a relatively high-achieving and highly strung group of friends as a teenager so none of my behaviour patterns ever really jumped out to anyone as abnormal.

As an adult, I have been diagnosed with some quite severe anxiety issues and I have a lot of OCD-related thought patterns and behaviours. I've been to therapy and deal with things a lot better now, but I still have periods of quite difficult anxiety that makes my life very hard for me and my partner when I'm going through them.

I often wish my parents or someone had picked up on how abnormal my thought patterns were as a child, as I think if I'd been going to therapy earlier and more aware of how my brain works (or fails to!) sometimes, I would be able to cope better with these things as an adult. I really, really urge you to get your daughter some help so she has as long as possible to combat any of these problems.

Have you actually weighed/measured her recently? The anxiety about bedtime/wake-up time and general teariness etc sounds just like my DD2 a few months ago. She also started showing increased anxiety about food. I eventually noticed how skinny she had become and weighed her - she was extremely underweight for her height. She has now been diagnosed as anorexic, but most of the anxiety/rigidity/odd behaviour has disappeared with better nutrition and added weight. We still have quite a way to go to get her to a properly healthy weight but she is eating much better and is much happier.

It doesn't necessarily need to be triggered by body image issues, just a period of inadequate nutrition (because of illness, picky eating, weight not keeping up with a growth spurt etc) can cause a spiral of these sort of behaviours. That's not to say that ASD or something else might not also be present, but my first stop would be to check the physical stuff and maybe keep a food diary for a while to see if she's getting enough fat/calories in an average day.

A bit off topic, but at 13 can she not tell the time herself? Why does she ask you? Does she not have a watch or a clock on the wall?

Sounds a lot like my ASD 12 year old dd, especially the whole time thing!

She sounds a lovely girl op

@SquirrelCrimbleCrumble she’s highly academic and top set Maths but she doesn’t wear a watch. She has a mobile phone but barely uses it so she asks me the time. I could get her a clock for her room I guess.

She is a lovely girl, I’m really very proud of her. I know I’ve listed a lot of things here, but she does seem well balanced, incredibly caring and kind. It’s interesting people have said ASD. Her older sister has had significant issues with school related anxiety and is currently seeing a psychiatrist for support. She is on the pathway, but I never thought ASD for dd2.

Dd15 is a bit like this. She's super conscientious. She eats a limited diet although this is improving. She cries in sympathy super easily but again, has got lots "better" - she once cried in the supermarket because she saw an old man buying food on his own. She likes to be in bed early and up early.

I've never been worried about her though which is the difference. She has a horse which she loves and looks after and that has taught her resilience and thst not everything can be controlled - of course I know that's not an option for everyone!

You know your dd and so I won't tell you there's nothing to worry about, but certainly Dd15 has changed a lot in the last year and is more relaxed.

We used to call Dd15 "Ella enchanted" because if anyone asked her to do something she'd do it - she couldn't not or she'd feel bad about it. She's now much better at saying "no"!

It sounds rather like perfectionism?

[quote WhoisRebecca]@SquirrelCrimbleCrumble she’s highly academic and top set Maths but she doesn’t wear a watch. She has a mobile phone but barely uses it so she asks me the time. I could get her a clock for her room I guess.[/quote]
Fair enough

I hate labels, and I do think everyone is on the spectrum to some degree, but her fixation on bedtime and the routine and not being able to deviate from it does point to something like Asperger's

My DD is the same; hates change, can't handle doing things differently to the way she was first shown (sodding phonics!) - school think she may be on the spectrum and might need support in the years to come

It may be worth a chat with your GP, though I wouldn't worry too much

I echo what others have said. It sounds like either anxiety or mild ASD.

What does she say about her limited food? Does she say it's texture, taste, low appetite?

I would personally find time to have a heart to heart. Explain that you've noticed she's seemingly putting pressure on herself with bedtime and ask if you can help. What would happen if you asked if she'd like to watch her favourite film and have a food snack she loves at 8? Might be a good way to testing how flexible she can be and help her push her boundaries. Maybe a nice walk together around the village at night with a hot chocolate.

Do you invite any of her friends around your house?

I would also talk to her about perspective. About what really matters in life (health, happiness, resilience) and explain that whilst it's great she's achieving so much already, there's no pressure to be perfect and that being "perfect" can make life more difficult in other ways.

Does she exercise? It can be great for relieving anxiety.

Is there anyone else in the extended family with ASD or some of these traits?

I can imagine how this may make you feel. All I want for my young children is to be happy and I'd hate to see them sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of norms or perceived expectations x

It sounds like ASD to me too, it presents so differently in girls that it is so often missed. The rigid control of a friendship group is one coping mechanism that you do see in girls - they're aware they have to 'be social' (masking) but that's really hard, so one way to do it is to be very selective about the people they socialise with.

However, it could also be anxiety/OCD. I would be alert to the possibility of anorexia in the future too.

I think it would be well worth exploring diagnosis with her OP.

It's also completely OK to read up on the techniques used to help autistic girls and start using them. You don't need to wait for a diagnosis, you don't have to just carry on as normal, you can get ahead of the game without permission. Apologies if this seems obvious, but it didn't to me and I wish someone had said that to me when we were waiting years for a diagnosis.

Food control can also be sensory by the way, it's just that she's not identifying it as sensory.

Reading your post made me feel a bit freaked out as you could have been writing about me at that age - right down to the being scared of trains because of that video that would get shown in the 1980s in assembly (I'll get on trains now, but I'm still scared when they pull up to the platform and have to hold onto something if there's a train going through without stopping). I got diagnosed with ASD and ADHD in my mid-30s (huge relief). I did get a diagnosed with an eating disorder when I was at university, although I think now that it was more caught up with anxiety because of the ASD. At your daughter's age, I ate mainly bread, pizza, carbs (beige food). It was definitely a sensory thing, as different textures made me feel sick (and sometimes actually be sick) and I would hate to have my food touching (picking the bacon bits out of carbonara, for example, to eat them separately).

Anyway, just to say that I think it would be really helpful for your daughter to see a professional, as it seems like there might be something else there.

My brother has ASD. Dd1 is on the pathway for ASD and ADD - she has had very significant difficulties with her MH and school based anxiety. Dd1 struggles academically though and is constantly having friendship issues. Dd2 gets on with everyone, has a highly developed sense of social justice and can read between the lines in a way that dd1 can’t.