Outrage! Socialist discovered in Labour Party as Ken Loach says he's expelled

[longwayoff]

Yes. KEN LOACH for crying out loud, director of "I, Daniel Blake" and many other films. AIBU to suggest this is not likely to be a vote winner? Idiots.

Broz - who is "we" in "we said", and what has happened?

I wish people would stop accusing others of anti semitism without looking at what was actually said, rather than cherry picking words to suit their narrative. It wholly diminishes the harm that actual antisemitism causes.

It is my view FWIW Corbyn, Loach, Livingstone etc hide their antisemitism/hatred of Jews behind their antizionism/hatred of Israel.

I am Jewish and a Zionist (which means believing in a homeland for Jews) but I do not under any circumstances support the actions of the Israeli Government just as being British I don't support the actions of the current Conservative Government.

It’s incredible that people are still in denial to how much damage was done to Labour under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

The Labour Party really consists of two political parties in one, centre/centre left and left, first past the post forces them to unite. The right of the party undermined Corbyn and now the left Starmer. I will vote for Labour under either as I want Tories out.

@SummerWhisper Starmer having only one successful election may be due to the fact that there have only been a handful since he became leader.

@sunshinesupermum

I wish people would stop accusing others of anti semitism without looking at what was actually said, rather than cherry picking words to suit their narrative. It wholly diminishes the harm that actual antisemitism causes.

It is my view FWIW Corbyn, Loach, Livingstone etc hide their antisemitism/hatred of Jews behind their antizionism/hatred of Israel.

I am Jewish and a Zionist (which means believing in a homeland for Jews) but I do not under any circumstances support the actions of the Israeli Government just as being British I don't support the actions of the current Conservative Government.

Why though? Why would someone like Ken Loach hate Jewish people? Why do you assume that's what is lurking behind their criticism of Zionism? It sounds more like what you want to believe.

Lots of people hide their antisemitism behind criticism of Zionism.

If you read what a lot of people say about 'Zionists' and replace 'Zionist' with 'Jew' you'll notice that it's the same old bullshit antisemitic conspiracy theories about Jews ruling the world and controlling world leaders and the media that have been around forever.

Normal people aren't obsessed with Israel controlling everything.

That said, I don't know if Ken Loach is an antisemite, but it certainly seems that he hangs out with them and has refused to distance himself from them.

Labour while Corbyn was leader stopped having Loach involved with their political party broadcasts

He was banging on and on about their not being much of an issue of anti Semitism within the Labour Party and it was all just a smear against Corbyn

I would call that denial that’s enough to kick someone out of the party. Good riddance

I manage as many do to be critical of the government of Israel as I am of other governments around the world.

But I don’t then make underhand comments about Jewish owned companies or America being run by powerful companies owned by Jewish people ans I don’t post anti Semetic artwork on social media.

It doesn’t take long for these type of comments/posts to come out. People know what is being said it doesn’t need to be in black and white

Good to see so many supporters of the Conservative government on ome thread.

Until Labour get their house in order and stop their inane bickering and factionalism they will drive off voters in many directions.

Not all voters are Labour Party members and one thing that is particularly off putting to voters is the infighting in parties (doesn't matter which).

Labour got into power when it was able to unite and get behind a leader in a meaningful way rather than taking every single available opportunity to put the boot in.

If Labour is spending so much time and effort merely keeping its own house in order, its not ready to govern. Doesn't matter which bleeding wing of the party they belong to.

@Zotter

It’s incredible that people are still in denial to how much damage was done to Labour under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.

The Labour Party really consists of two political parties in one, centre/centre left and left, first past the post forces them to unite. The right of the party undermined Corbyn and now the left Starmer. I will vote for Labour under either as I want Tories out.

Exactly. As for voting Labour to get rid of the Tories - that's the issue for lot of people like me who had trouble supporting the p[arty in the later Blair era and during the Millband leadership - by then it seemed to have become a Tory lite party with not much in the way of Social Democratic policies remaining - the Lib Dems were to the left on quite a few issues.

I would never vote Tory but at the times where Labour is just watered down Toryism, I can't vote Labour either.

This is all caused by our antiquated FPTP system. Perhaps long enough in the wilderness might persuade Labour to support a change to PR.

Labour’s torn in their side has always been the far left fraction of the party that is nothing new.

Whoever leads can’t ignore in fighting Blair and Brown were very good at uniting much of the party three consecutive wins isn’t what the left of the party wanted

Now again having to deal with them will cost labour another election but I think Starmer right is dealing with them

Labour need centre voters to win its as simple as that you don’t appeal to them you are in opposition

I'm not denying you've seen comments/artwork like that, but honestly in all the time I've been online, I never have.

Do you know what it looks like?

Can you spot any antisemitic replies to this recent tweet by a popular socialist account, for example? twitter.com/socialistsunday/status/1426642124125216776?s=21

That is completely grim, Noble - and a really good example of the problem.

I don’t care what Israel is doing in Palestine. I really, really don’t. It’s irrelevant to me and my life. Sorry if it sounds heartless, but it’s just how I feel. I don’t think I’m alone.

The things I care about are things like why it takes years to get a CAMHS appointment in my area, why house prices are accelerating away from young people in this country, why there is no plan for social care, where people can find work when factories close, why some children are still living in poverty, why we have such horrendous drugs deaths in Scotland. If Labour perhaps focussed 100% on issues that matter to people then they might get more votes.

Well, fortunately for all of us, now groups like 'Labour Against the Witch-hunt' have been proscribed by the Labour Party, many more of us can move in circles where we're not exposed to anti-semitism. 🙂

Unless we choose to remain there (like Mr Loach).

And the Labour Party really can give full focus to the things that most people actually, really care about.

Win, win, win.

Winning all round.

What's not to like about that?

'The things I care about are things like why it takes years to get a CAMHS appointment in my area, why house prices are accelerating away from young people in this country, why there is no plan for social care, where people can find work when factories close, why some children are still living in poverty, why we have such horrendous drugs deaths in Scotland. If Labour perhaps focussed 100% on issues that matter to people then they might get more votes.'

Yes.

These are the things that come up again and again.

You can see it just by reading MN boards.

This is what Labour needs to be allowed to focus on.

Yes, I can, and they're abhorrent. But these are not what I am seeing every day on my feeds at all.

No, mine either, but to say 'well I never see them' is basically insinuating that it's a minor issue, well-buried. That account that I linked to is not obscure. It has 30k followers and I note it is followed by a union rep that I follow, plus many other normal looking accounts.

And yet look at the state of those replies. The fact that there are so many of them unchallenged as if it is totally reasonable to have those sorts of replies is normalising antisemitism.

And you get people saying 'oh, there isn't a problem with antisemitism, it's just people getting confused about legitimate criticism of Israel'.

There's clearly a problem, it's not minor, it's so widespread as to be normalised in fairly mainstream circles. Anyone who says they don't see it either can't have made any effort to look, or sees so much of it that they don't actually recognise it for what it is.

I think you've missed the anti-Semitic trope in the opening post of the Twitter thread, RadandMad.

Are you a member of the Labour Party? Have you done the anti-semitism training?

If you have, you'll recognise it.

It's right there, as a dog whistle:

'Who is pulling Starmer's strings?'

Well, who?

I mean - it's mad, really. He's the elected Labour leader, he works with a range of people and is there by consensus. And he is trying to make Labour electable, so works with a range of people in that way, too.

So this whole idea of him being a puppet is barking, anyway.

But the trope is right there, straight from the anti-Semitic playbook. The image of Jews involved in shadowy networks, pulling the strings of their puppets.

Countless anti-Semitic cartoons like this existed in the early part of the C20.

And, in case you think that's arcane, well, it has a new lease of life in contemporary far left circles: Starmer is a puppet of those seeking to discredit the Far Left, Corbyn, etc. He's a puppet. The EHRC report is a con/scam.

And who, then, is pulling the strings? A mix of right-wing interests, Zionists, etc.

It's a dog-whistle, which is why the very first response is 'I could say who but I'd be called a racist'.

There is no good faith to be accorded to that tweet. It's a dog-whistle and nasty as fuck.

And I'm seriously tired of being pulled into some sort of game-playing with a bunch of nutters who think it is funny and/or clever to play hide and seek with anti-demotion.

It's sick behaviour.

And the irony is that, while some of them are genuinely doing this because they are trying to rescue the reputation of Corbyn, what this stuff does is hopelessly entangle that reputation more and more in disgusting behaviour.

That thread is awful. And whoever is running that account should bd ashamed of themselves.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more angry I am.

Whoever made that Twitter post did it in full knowledge they were boundary-testing anti-semitism definitions. Pushing for plausible deniability whilst simultaneously dog-whistling.

It's been tweeted after the Labour Party anti-demotion training, which features anti-Semitic cartoons of puppets being controlled by 'Jews acting wit capitalists'.

It's a horrible thread.

Fucking autocorrect.

Anti-demotion = anti-semitism.