Outrage! Socialist discovered in Labour Party as Ken Loach says he's expelled

[longwayoff]

Yes. KEN LOACH for crying out loud, director of "I, Daniel Blake" and many other films. AIBU to suggest this is not likely to be a vote winner? Idiots.

So I've read that proposal and it's just, give more money to schools. Which a lot of us agree with, but it's just a short term issue. The pandemic will be over before the election and then this is a document of what Labour would (perhaps) have done which honestly will leave voters rolling their eyes. As a voter I want to see what their plans for education as a whole are for the future. Not for what they would have done this summer.

Come on Cat, you must see that Starmer needs to start establishing credibility soon or Johnson is going to get the current 5yr voting term abolished and going to call a quick election and people will still not be engaged with Labour and still be thinking Starmer is a bit of a dud. We deserve better.

Yes, you need to be in govt to legislate but to get into govt you've got to get people to vote for you. There's a large left leaning section of members on MN desperate for a Labour victory. Do you sense that they are inspired by what they see and hear? I don't. You need to ask yourself why. And that's why he needs to change now. Not wait til 6 weeks before the election and think he'll dazzle everyone.
The Tories have made multiple messes of their handling of the pandemic, Johnson is under constant attack from his own party and Cummings has ripped holes out of him. How are KS and the Labour party not sky high in the polls? He can't just keep kicking policy formation into the long grass and hope there'll be enough peoole like you to believe him in on election day.

Sorry to say all this. We need a credible opposition. We don't have one.

Oh, cronyism, venal govt, chaotic etc etc. It's been said a million times. It's not sticking. The Labour party has to introduce another string to its bow.

what sort of decent politician goes into local elections and by election with no policies to give people reason to vote for you. People won't vote for an empty vessel. Unfortunately Keir Starmer has no charisma

Johnson had this famed 'charisma'. He was also an empty vessel with vacuous soundbites instead of policies - e.g. oven ready Brexit. People voted for him and his lot, lamentably. What Labour were offering in comparison did not convince people. (Still waiting for an explanation of why if so many people want the 'more left wing' option represented by Ken Loach, Labour didn't win in 2019)

Personally I long for someone uncharismatic but competent and honest to be running the country.

@Earlydancing

Oh, cronyism, venal govt, chaotic etc etc. It's been said a million times. It's not sticking. The Labour party has to introduce another string to its bow.

Oh, it is sticking.

But it's amazing how often it has to be repeated.

Personally, I think it's the scale that is part of the problem.

It's actually hard to believe the corruption that the PPE contracts and Greensill reveal. It's so awful.

Greensill en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensill_scandal

PPE www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKBN2AJ1KF

@sameproblem

what sort of decent politician goes into local elections and by election with no policies to give people reason to vote for you. People won't vote for an empty vessel. Unfortunately Keir Starmer has no charisma

Johnson had this famed 'charisma'. He was also an empty vessel with vacuous soundbites instead of policies - e.g. oven ready Brexit. People voted for him and his lot, lamentably. What Labour were offering in comparison did not convince people. (Still waiting for an explanation of why if so many people want the 'more left wing' option represented by Ken Loach, Labour didn't win in 2019)

Personally I long for someone uncharismatic but competent and honest to be running the country.

@sameproblem

Personally I long for someone uncharismatic but competent and honest to be running the country.

No one can deny that lots of people voted for Johnson because they liked him and felt a connection to him. That might change and have changed. But he was an empty vessel with charisma (whether you liked him or not). At the moment Starmer is an empty vessel with no charisma. He has to become substantial to get elected.

Oh, it is sticking.

But it's amazing how often it has to be repeated

Maybe you work in the party and you see figures I don't? Because honestly I'm not seeing much movement in friends voting patterns. There is such huge scepticism about him. I remember at the start if the pandemic there was such optimism about his election. Now there's definitely more criticism of the govt but no one is speaking about Starmer to replace him. Just anecdotal I know. If you have any political connections, I'd be greatly comforted if you could give assurances that Starmers credibility is rising.

It's not good news that he's expelled Ken Loach. The optics don't look good. Is this more pandering to the focus groups I wonder. Either way Labour are doomed and so are we!

@sunshinesupermum

Good riddance Loach is a Holocaust denier. That's enough for me.

Seriously? Is he really? Where is the evidence for this? I can't believe it.

He doesn't in any way seem to be a holocaust denier here:

Loach refutes accusations of Holocaust denial here

I know he's far from perfect but to accuse someone of holocaust denial is a really offensive thing to do unless you have irrefutable proof.

McCarthyism. It's not encouraging.

I don't get this attitude. If its a good idea, surely any political party would,want it introduced as soon as possible. If it a stolen idea badly implicated, then you go after that.

Come on, that is not how it works. Do you honestly think that the best way for an opposition party to operate is to hustle for the govn to implement some half-baked version of their own policies?! That never happens (not just KS isn't doing this- it just isn't how it works). Firstly, you can't force someone with an 80 seat majority to do anything. You just can't. And if they do pick something up and do a crap version it could cause more harm than good, and if it goes well where does that leave the opposition when it comes to an election? Either their policies have been used and shown to be crap (because they weren't done properly) or they worked and someone else gets the credit. The opposition is there to oppose, not try to govern alongside the ruling party.

I agree to an extent that Starmer needs to do a lot better - I'm not saying he's doing brilliantly, but I don't really get the obsession with policies when an election is still a few years away and he can't know what the economic situation, for instance, will be at that point. They do need to create a vision for the future though, I do hope that will be forthcoming soon.

Also, while the Hartlepool by-election was a disaster, the local elections afterwards weren't that bad, though his hasty reshuffle was a bit of a disaster. The Tories didn't do that well - I do think some of the shine is coming off Johnson and Labour can exploit that.

Ken Loach has been a multi millionaire for decades. He has absolutely no comprehension of what it is truly like for the poor, the working class, the just about managings etc.

Why he is held up as the voice of the worker is beyond me.

I thought some of the plots in 'I, Daniel Blake' were a bit off. Woman can't afford to feed kids, so she turns to sex work. Man from the North East refuses to use a computer.

By all means, tell the message. What has happened to those on the sick has been appalling, and the existence of food banks is awful. But don't sensationalise with lazy stereotypes.

@Snoozer11

Ken Loach has been a multi millionaire for decades. He has absolutely no comprehension of what it is truly like for the poor, the working class, the just about managings etc.

Why he is held up as the voice of the worker is beyond me.

I thought some of the plots in 'I, Daniel Blake' were a bit off. Woman can't afford to feed kids, so she turns to sex work. Man from the North East refuses to use a computer.

By all means, tell the message. What has happened to those on the sick has been appalling, and the existence of food banks is awful. But don't sensationalise with lazy stereotypes.

He’s just a champagne socialist who, like Corbyn, never grew out of student politics and virtue signaling protest into the real world.

As the saying goes: a socialist is someone who has read Lenin and Marx, an anti socialist is someone who understands Lenin and Marx.

@robotcollision

He doesn't in any way seem to be a holocaust denier here:

Loach refutes accusations of Holocaust denial here

I know he's far from perfect but to accuse someone of holocaust denial is a really offensive thing to do unless you have irrefutable proof.

I agree. It seems an easy way to discredit someone. Reminds me of the JK Rowling stuff, DD's mates are all "bUt She's TrANsPhObiC!" but they mumble some bullshit non answer when you ask why or what she has said or done that has made them believe that.

Ken Loach has been a multi millionaire for decades. He has absolutely no comprehension of what it is truly like for the poor, the working class, the just about managings etc

You can be a multi millionaire and understand deprivation and struggle. Many who have been born into poverty or had a childhood filled with unemployment or with an experience of living in a sink estate have gone on to be successful and economically privileged later in life.

@Suprima

And that’s not even considering the Holocaust denial.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/05/ken-loach-i-give-no-legitimacy-to-holocaust-denial

Sorry missed people already shared evidence KL is not a Holocaust denier

Ken Loach is not a holocaust denier. Labour is dwindling in the polls. Starmer is a vacant leader with no vision. Corbyn and his cabinet created policies early on and you knew what they stood for. He inspired hundreds of thousands to join Labour, making it the biggest party in Europe and put the party in the black with a very healthy bank balance from membership subs. The 2017 election saw him come to within a few thousand votes of winning. In that election, he stated he would respect the referendum result on Brexit. Labour won seats that had never been won before. Enter Starmer and his grand plans to reverse the referendum and hold a 2nd one. It was a major factor in the 2019 losses. Nearly all of the red seats lost were high Brexit areas. Starmer and his Brexit reversal policy and the relentless attacks from the mainstream media and from within Corbyn's own party killed Labour off in 2019. Ironically, research showed that around 70% of the public polled agreed with Corbyn's socialist manifesto (without knowing it was Corbyn's manifesto). In opposition, Corbyn forced hundreds of U-turns out of Cameron, May and Johnson. Starmer...how many? None, so far.

Starmer has only had one successful election - Batley and Spen. Under Corbyn, the majority of many thousands was upheld. Under Starmer, it dwindled to just 300. Labour has lost most council by-elections and altogether around 300 Council seats under Starmer. Over 100,000 members have left the party. Starmer gave an undisclosed compensation to 6 staffers when the party's legal team advised him that the party would win the case in court, but he took money from the membership subs to pay them off. The party is now skint due to this pay-off and the huge loss of membership subs. He is making a quarter of the staff redundant. Since April 2020, the start of Starmer's tenure as leader, there was £13.5 million in the bank. That has now gone.

Starmer is a fucking disaster and instead of going after the Tories and forming a manifesto and forcing u-turns, he is greeing with government policy and not calling for resignations when he should be (Matt Hancock!) He is instead going after socialists and more specifically, he is going after those who support the rights of the Palestinian people to have autonomy and freedom in their land. It is not antisemitic to support the freedom of Palestine, but it is antisemitic if you blame Jewish people for the Palestinian struggle.

The next election will be 2023. We need a stronger leader to win.

Good. Loach’s expulsion is long overdue. Well done, Keir.

If Labour wants to win again it must start actually listening to the ordinary working people outside the M25 whose economic interests it is supposed to represent, instead of listening to the obsessions of its own left wing activists

Traditional white working class Labour voters in Stoke, Mansfield or Hartlepool who feel ignored and abandoned don’t give a fuck about Palestine. They are not interested in patronising lectures about Trans rights. Nor do they appreciate sneering at their patriotism and desire for law & order, or telling them that their concerns about uncontrolled mass immigration are racist.

Do Starmer and his allies actually get this? I hope so, because if they want to win again they have to stop ignoring the people who are supposed to be their core voters.

@Unfashionable I think plenty of white, working class people give a fuck about Palestine. It was obvious in 2014 during the air strikes in Gaza. Public outrage across the UK was high. I wish there could be a peaceful solution for all affected.

@SummerWhisper
I couldn't agree more.

Sure you understand lenin and marx (you dont, neither invented socialism) when you cant even spell 'labour', sst. Stick to your own country, you lot like that idea dont you?

Just shows what kind of labour party Starmer is running: one for the status quo (the primary role of government is to protect property from the many, and so it remains)
Booting Loach, a longtime bane of the Tories by making their lethal policies brutally visible via film, is the final act in a drama which centred on kicking Corbyn into stasis. It has failed to silence decent people who just want a fairer society, but instead we are misrepresented & mocked by people who aren't profoundly affected by austerity or the corporate takeover of the NHS & who think Boris is a bit of a laugh while he & his cronies fill their pockets with our taxes.
Also, Loach is not a Holocaust denier & everyone who has posted this vile smear needs to retract it.