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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Outrage! Socialist discovered in Labour Party as Ken Loach says he's expelled

129 replies

longwayoff · 14/08/2021 13:23

Yes. KEN LOACH for crying out loud, director of "I, Daniel Blake" and many other films. AIBU to suggest this is not likely to be a vote winner? Idiots.

OP posts:
VashtaNerada · 15/08/2021 06:10

Ken Loach is more Labour than Starmer could ever be. Antisemitism is real and it is morally repugnant to pretend this is the reason those to the left of the party are being treated so badly. There are many Jewish supporters of Ken Loach (& Jeremy Corbyn for that matter) who are disgusted by what’s going on. Our eyes need to be firmly on the racists in government rather than pretending that Ken Loach is the problem here.

newnortherner111 · 15/08/2021 07:27

Ken Loach's films whilst excellent and deservedly award winning are not films largely watched by a mainstream audience. The merits or otherwise of him not being in the Labour Party any more are unlikely to affect how many people vote.

SummerWhisper · 15/08/2021 08:12

@thecatfromjapan why doesn't Starmer release the Forde report? What doesn't he want the public to know? It's almost a year overdue and he has buried it. He has no integrity.

Why is he flailing in the polls? They used to scream about Corbyn "any other leader would be 20 points ahead" yet Starmer is miserably trailing the most incompetent and corrupt Prime Minister ever. Labour is losing votes across the UK and the only thing we know he has a position on is the death of an alpaca. Not the death of corruption , or the death of privatising the NHS, or the death of austerity, but the death of an animal. He is incapable of reading the public mood. Now he wants to bring Blairism back at a time when US troops are pulling out of Afghanistan, so he will no doubt support another illegal war (this time a Tory one) and help send our youth to their deaths. So the killing of an animal and the lauding of a warmonger is who he is as a leader. That's the closest we have come to decisive courses of action.

The EHRC report was welcome. Antisemitism is 100% not welcome in the party. If you are antisemitic, you are a cunt. What the report showed is that Labour's processes were flawed and needed improvements. I welcome that. Corbyn and his office made attempts to speed them up but that was seen as interference by the EHRC. Starmer made a public statement about his suspension of Corbyn, which is of course against the EHRC recommendations (leader interfering in process) then denied it. Len McCluskey is about to publish a book that includes this event and is 100% confident he will win a court case if Starmer wants to attempt to challenge him in court and waste even more money the party doesn't now have.

Starmer is killing off the Labour vote in the same way John Major killed off the Tory vote. The Greens are seeing a rise in vote share. Young voters want a focus on environmental issues, hence why Corbyn was so popular with them. There has to be a leadership challenge to give the party any chance in 2023.

noblegiraffe · 15/08/2021 08:29

Interesting that some people think Corbyn getting more votes in 2017 than 2019 was because Corbyn was great and not because Theresa May ran a terrible campaign and handed him votes. Fox hunting and grammar schools? Plus how strongly Remainers felt about Brexit. Have people forgotten how bad she was?

2019 and people had seen far more of Corbyn and didn’t like the cantankerous, stubborn old man with a tolerance for nutters and antisemites.

By 2019 it was impossible to convince people that he wasn’t worse than the alternative.

Langsdestiny · 15/08/2021 08:31

Yes it was the worst Tory election campaign I have ever seen and labour still didnt win.

knittingaddict · 15/08/2021 08:38

I'm not a fan of Ken Loach and, from some of the posts on here, I'm happy to see him gone.

tilder · 15/08/2021 08:47

Labour is a tragedy. It makes me want to weep. Until it moves past Corbynism and into actual opposition, it has no chance of winning.

It is a very divided party trying to rebuild from a shattered base. So much infighting.

I still have no idea who I would vote for.

Tory? I would rather drink bleach. Morally corrupt.
Lib dem? Who?
Greens? Why would a woman vote for them? Too far left and have forgotten genuine environmental issues.

Come on labour. You can do better. You need to do better.

longwayoff · 15/08/2021 10:29

Couldn't agree more tilder. My bitterness comes from despair, if not Labour then what else? It's dreadful, fighting like cats in a sack whilst Bozza and his mates are stuffing the family silver under their coats before they leg it out of the window leaving the detritus for those that remain to pick over. I can't see a solution. Sacking Ken Loach is not the answer, it's simply a diversion away from focusing on the main issue. No leadership and no policies of note.

OP posts:
OhWhyNot · 15/08/2021 10:48

Stamer is killing off the Labour vote Hmm

It was under Corbyn that Labour lost areas that have been Labour for decades Corbyn and Co took their vote for granted didn’t bother listening to them as they knew what they wanted they know what the working class voters believed in

It’s incredible that people are still in denial to how much damage was done to Labour under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership. But let’s not forget they had the largest party membership and he was hero worshipped by them so all was fantastic in their title world

sst1234 · 15/08/2021 11:02

This thread alone shows that Labour has a lot of tearing itself apart to do yet, before it can move on from being a fringe joke. Magic grandpa and his band of socialist troopers may be gone, but some of the party membership still remain with their student politics bubble. Also the PLP is mostly made up of mediocre hangers on, offensive caricatures of the working class and career salary takers who probably couldn’t manage in the real world.
Never mind, it makes for good entertainment at least.

thecatfromjapan · 15/08/2021 11:44

The 'no policies' mantra is bizarre. MesBede has spelled out why there aren't policies at this stage of the election cycle.
Plus, as Labour members know, some policy is drawn from Conference - and we didn't have Conference last year because of the Pandemic.

Keir Starmer and the Labour Party are releasing - in verbal and written form - statements about the direction of travel.

None of its a surprise: plans for economic recovery that focus on social and economic equity; getting to grips with the social care problem (which is urgent); economic plans that focus on dealing with climate change; putting an emphasis on children (education and well-being).

It's all pretty obvious stuff, which I guess doesn't get the pulse racing.

Of course, one obvious point is that it's not being done by our present government.

And, sadly it needs to be said, Labour's defeat in 2019 was extraordinary. Unparalleled in its history. To revers that loss and gain government would require a voting swing that has never been achieved previously.

The media know this as well as I do. So media aren't making a big song and dance about Labour being 'on course for victory' because, statistically, it's not likely.

'Swing' media aren't going to swing behind Labour unless they sense that an absolutely unprecedented victory is around the corner.

And that is a significant factor in the lack of cut-through for Starmer.

It's tough - but that's the hand that's been dealt.

And, yes, it is a tragedy.

The 80-seat victory has definitely made this government worse. It's meant they're less worried about the next election and it's meant there's precious little in the way of checks and balances for what they do. And it's made the Conservative Party quite wary of toppling Johnson. And Johnson is a key element in why this government is so shockingly awful.

The 80-seat majority is a key factor in the issues Starmer is dealing with - and it's not helpful to pretend it doesn't exist. 🤷‍♀️

But, you know, there are many of us who know things could be better. We know that corruption on the level we're seeing is unacceptable. We know it's unusual to think it is acceptable to turn the pandemic into a money-making opportunity for mates.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure a lot of Conservatives feel that way.

So, yes, I'll be putting my shoulder to the wheel, and pushing on. I won't be spending my energy on delusion and undermining Labour.

People deserve better than that. And I know that Labour can deliver better.

I have no doubt Starmer would be a better PM than Johnson. I have no doubt that the U.K. would be a happier place, people more at ease with themselves, less fractured and oppositional, more cohesive and hopeful, with a Labour government.

For most of us, this government produces anxiety, worry about the future, worry about making ends meet, uncertainty about old age I'll-health. It's brought people turning against each other and a lot of barely-suppressed anger.

I'm afraid I really do want a government that seriously builds towards a future and a vision of that future that is fit for the C21. A future where the U.K. builds on its strengths as a technologically advanced, innovative and creative place. Where we are at the forefront of developing green technologies. And where we celebrate industries like our creative sector and world-class education.

I am tired of being fed a promise of us going into the C21 as a threadbare, moth-infested place of squalor for the many and grubby money-laundering and squalid tax-evasion for a tiny few. I'm tired of the greasy draining of moral standards in public life.

I always say this (because it's true): I really like the U.K. I'm proud of living here. And that is precisely why I can't bear what Johnson and co are doing.

There is absolutely no way on Earth Starmer wouldn't make a better PM.

And all the pinging on about 'lack of policies', 'not charismatic', etc is there to do one thing and one thing only: to distract people from the absolutely obvious point that Starmer would be a better PM and Labour would serve the U.K. better.

sst1234 · 15/08/2021 11:56

@thecatfromjapan

It is an incorrect assertion that the Tories are afraid to topple Johnson or that they have any regard for a leader. They simply do not follow the leadership cult that Labour do. Tories are a machine, they are in it to win it. Whether you agree with their policies or not, that is how politics should be done. They are effective at implementing what they want, that is the success criteria. Labour, in the main, over the last 100 years have been an amateur protest movement bar the few times they manage to get their act together to win. With the next crop of Tory leaders emerging, somehow I don’t think Starmer is going to stand chance vs Rishi and co. Though he is still a superficial improvement on Ref Corbin and his band of Marxist loons.

thecatfromjapan · 15/08/2021 11:59

They really are worried about toppling Johnson.

I absolutely agree with you about the ruthless pragmatism.

It's basically why Johnson is still there despite a lot of the Party having deep, deep misgivings about him.

He is still seen as charmed, though - and a major factor in the 80-seat majority.

That's why leadership challenge rumblings come to nothing.

Theluggage15 · 15/08/2021 12:01

Loach is a nasty anti Semitic dickhead. The fact he made some tedious films does not give him a free pass on behaviour.

OhWhyNot · 15/08/2021 12:08

I agree sst1234

The Tory party are the most successful political party ever and there is a reason for this they are efficient in getting into power and they making changes regardless of what you think about the changes. They are also a party that will be flexible in their approach

Boris Johnson is still a vote winner at the moment so he will go when he wants to or when the party know they are onto a loser

That’s not happening right now. I had high hopes for Starmer I thought being almost opposite to Johnson would be helpful but I don’t think it’s is.

Labour could learn a lot from the Tory party but we don’t (last time we did was under Blair three consecutive terms but many on Labour don’t want to move to centre left so in opposition we stay)

And not too many on the left are living in a social media bubble how many times have I read that Boris Johnson is about to resign (an MN favourite)

NannyAndJohn · 15/08/2021 12:13

I quit the Labour Party last year after Sir Starmer's pathetic response to Covid and the attacks on Corbyn.

Every day my decision is vindicated.

Zotter · 15/08/2021 12:45

@Theluggage15

Loach is a nasty anti Semitic dickhead. The fact he made some tedious films does not give him a free pass on behaviour.
Anthony Lerman, Director of JPR (the Institute for Jewish Policy Research) before he retired, does not believe Loach is an anti semite as he writes here:

antonylerman.com/2020/03/24/flimsy-and-vindictive-the-case-against-ken-loach/

Zotter · 15/08/2021 12:51

And, sadly it needs to be said, Labour's defeat in 2019 was extraordinary. Unparalleled in its history. To revers that loss and gain government would require a voting swing that has never been achieved previously. - Brexit definitely hugely contributed.

Starmer would be better than this government but I fear would not address the systemic issues ailing this country. Would still have him over this awful govt though.

tilder · 15/08/2021 13:18

Johnson delivered Brexit. And in the eyes of the majority he delivered the vaccine. The shit needs to hit the fan in a really big way for Brexiteers to go against him.

Starmer has a major uphill battle. Bitter infighting plus the Brexit/vaccine effect. I think he is making gradual inroads on the Corbyn infighting front (see Loach). Which is frankly dealing with a very vocal but small minority of the population. Who won't win an election.

Brexit and the vaccine? That gifted Boris a free ticket. People genuinely don't care about his lack of morals. Because Brexit.

samG76 · 15/08/2021 13:24

I have canvassed in most elections since 1987, including in white working class areas, and only twice has anyone raised the question of the Middle East on the doorstep. The problem with Corbyn/Loach/Livingstone and their allies isn't so much their views on the ME (though these are pretty repulsive, and involve giving a free pass to loads of racist and homophobic groups provided they oppose Israel) but that they are obsessed with the conflict and see everything through its lens. Blair, Cameron and May, although sympathetic to Israel, were not obsessed with the ME - they ran a broad church and had plenty of supporters who felt differently.

This is all the more ironic because there is arse all that Britain can do to alter the situation - both sides hate us for historical reasons. You would have thought it is better to go to the wall for something that you can actually influence....

Theluggage15 · 15/08/2021 13:36

Nice that Lerman sticks up for him, but many Jewish people think Loach is anti Semitic and it’s amazing how, if he isn’t anti Semitic that he getting into trouble for anti Semitism. How terribly unlucky and misunderstood he is.

OhWhyNot · 15/08/2021 13:51

It’s baffling how so many on the left have been misunderstood and labelled as being anti Semitic

If only more Jewish people would listen to them and educate themselves on anti Semitism (and non Jewish people)

After all the righteous left knows what’s best for everyone they have a deeper understanding being so intellectual

samG76 · 15/08/2021 14:03

Exactly, the luggage - just like Livingstone. How strange that he so often finds himself talking about Hitler and Zionism, when he knows absolutely nothing about either, can't as far as I know speak a word of German or Hebrew, and seems to have obtained all his info on the subject from some obscure and controversial book written 40 years ago.

Orf1abc · 15/08/2021 14:05

I wish people would stop accusing others of anti semitism without looking at what was actually said, rather than cherry picking words to suit their narrative. It wholly diminishes the harm that actual antisemitism causes.

BrozTito · 15/08/2021 14:13

We said again and again absurd accusations of AS would have a boy who cried wolf effect. It was ignored and guess what has happened?

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