AIBU to be asked to reframe my trauma by the trans CEO of Scottish Rape Crisis?

[herewegogc]

The CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis has said "Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

Apparently, survivors are to be "educated" in this service.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Tonight is a really tough one. Women who have been raped or sexually assaulted need females to listen to them. Rape Crisis was that service and used to offer trauma based therapy.

I don't need educating - I know that detailing my experience to a man, or a transwomen is NEVER something I will do.

This is too much.

They are reframing our reality in their image.

A very good example of someone hiding in plain sight.

Absolutely shocking.

So now they get to define what is a “good feminist”.. for some reason that made me

"good feminist" = people who agree with me.

good feminist" = people who agree that I am a woman.

"good feminist" = people who agree that my perspective is the only valid one and that while I, or my team under my guidance, is providing support for any bigot we will ensure their bigoted views are changed so they can live the happy life I describe, believing what we have instilled in their minds as the only path to happiness. And that they agree with me and my view of the world.

good feminist" = people who agree to centre males in traumatised women's treatment plans.

good feminist" = people who agree to centre males.

This isn’t about trans rights or women’s rights this is about having a little fucking human decency to recognise that the priority should be the victim and not an individual offended because they feel discriminated against. If they cannot understand that their biological sex is intimidating to a rape victim and understand why they need to sit this one out then they are in entirely the wrong profession.

Terrific post @nocturnalcatfreetogoodhome

I actually volunteered on a rape crisis hotline (I am a cis woman, if it matters, and yes I'll call myself what I like, thanks) and I would be 100% happy to speak to a trans woman in any therapeutic or crisis context. It wouldn't even cross my mind to think otherwise. And yes, I have been sexually assaulted by a man - a white man, in fact, and I would also happily deal with a white person in a therapeutic setting.

As a rape crisis hotline volunteer I actually dealt with a victim who used racist language to describe the man who raped her. I told her I understood she was upset but that I needed her to please not use that word and then she went on a tangent about how 'not all blacks are n-words but this guy was' (it's a thing that particularly racist Americans love to say).

I found myself, as a Black woman, feeling upset and less able to help this particular woman, so I re-iterated that her language was unacceptable and that I would be passing her call to another colleague. That other (white) colleague also asked her to use "black" instead of "n*er" and I think she agreed, though it was a while ago. If she hadn't agreed and had continued using that word, my colleague would have probably still tried to help her, but she certainly wasn't obligated to do it.

If I were a trans woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who had a phobia or hatred of me, just as a Black woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was blatantly racist towards me. It's not going to be a useful therapeutic relationship for either party. But that doesn't mean that the victim gets a pass on her phobia or hatred. If she politely said "I prefer to speak to someone who isn't transgender" and she was in active crisis, probably would be best to skip over that - but if it kept coming up or she used slurs or if the only person available wasn't a cis woman, well, same thing that would have happened if there were no white colleagues available to help my racist counsellee - you either get over yourself real quick-like and take the help on offer without saying nasty shit to the people trying to help you, or you go somewhere else for help. Being a victim doesn't give you the right to victimise someone else.

Yes please do go ahead and pile on, I know you all disagree with me and some of you will probably think I'm some kind of monster. Luckily most decent and reasonable people won't agree with you and I'm writing this mainly for the people reading this who might think that every woman in the UK hates trans people - no, it's a very specific and noisy minority that gather here to shout into their echo chamber. Their noise is massively disproportionate to their actual size, thankfully.

@Wroxie

I actually volunteered on a rape crisis hotline (I am a cis woman, if it matters, and yes I'll call myself what I like, thanks) and I would be 100% happy to speak to a trans woman in any therapeutic or crisis context. It wouldn't even cross my mind to think otherwise. And yes, I have been sexually assaulted by a man - a white man, in fact, and I would also happily deal with a white person in a therapeutic setting.

As a rape crisis hotline volunteer I actually dealt with a victim who used racist language to describe the man who raped her. I told her I understood she was upset but that I needed her to please not use that word and then she went on a tangent about how 'not all blacks are n-words but this guy was' (it's a thing that particularly racist Americans love to say).

I found myself, as a Black woman, feeling upset and less able to help this particular woman, so I re-iterated that her language was unacceptable and that I would be passing her call to another colleague. That other (white) colleague also asked her to use "black" instead of "n*er" and I think she agreed, though it was a while ago. If she hadn't agreed and had continued using that word, my colleague would have probably still tried to help her, but she certainly wasn't obligated to do it.

If I were a trans woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who had a phobia or hatred of me, just as a Black woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was blatantly racist towards me. It's not going to be a useful therapeutic relationship for either party. But that doesn't mean that the victim gets a pass on her phobia or hatred. If she politely said "I prefer to speak to someone who isn't transgender" and she was in active crisis, probably would be best to skip over that - but if it kept coming up or she used slurs or if the only person available wasn't a cis woman, well, same thing that would have happened if there were no white colleagues available to help my racist counsellee - you either get over yourself real quick-like and take the help on offer without saying nasty shit to the people trying to help you, or you go somewhere else for help. Being a victim doesn't give you the right to victimise someone else.

Yes please do go ahead and pile on, I know you all disagree with me and some of you will probably think I'm some kind of monster. Luckily most decent and reasonable people won't agree with you and I'm writing this mainly for the people reading this who might think that every woman in the UK hates trans people - no, it's a very specific and noisy minority that gather here to shout into their echo chamber. Their noise is massively disproportionate to their actual size, thankfully.

Cis is a slur. I find it highly offensive.

If she politely said "I prefer to speak to someone who isn't transgender" and she was in active crisis, probably would be best to skip over that

That’s exactly what we’re talking about here. She isn’t being allowed to do that, even if the trans woman’s physical presence is an active trigger for her. Do you understand why that’s problematic?

but if it kept coming up or she used slurs or if the only person available wasn't a cis woman

Who has even suggested anyone’s using slurs? If you have to make crap up to support your point, concede you don’t have a point. And shouldn’t a natal woman always be available? Isn’t that fundamental, if a man or a trans woman would be triggering?

Wroxie that’s all fine for you - but you don’t get to consent on behalf of other women for whom it is indisputably not fine at all

Also just FYI the old ‘decent and reasonable people agree with me that TWAW & you’re all big meeeeeanies’ shibboleth isn’t backed up by research at all.

This isn’t about trans rights or women’s rights this is about having a little fucking human decency to recognise that the priority should be the victim and not an individual offended because they feel discriminated against. If they cannot understand that their biological sex is intimidating to a rape victim and understand why they need to sit this one out then they are in entirely the wrong profession

I know this has been quoted by a PP but it needs repeating.

some of you will probably think I'm some kind of monster

I would never describe you in such dehumanising terms but I find it incomprehensible that you can read pages upon pages of devastated women explaining how they don't hate trans people but they just want to speak to a female counsellor, and then come on here with a load of irrelevant bullshit intended to shame rape victims for their trauma responses.

You came on here to shame rape victims. The fact that you referred to yourself as a monster suggests to me that somewhere, deep down, you know that there is something very, very wrong with that.

Isn't this less about the volunteers snd support workers ( although a TW experience is likely different to that for which training had been given ) and more about respect for the victims ?

@wroxie The racist language is totally unacceptable. But this is a different issue, it is about safeguarding. If someone politely asked their counsellor to be a woman, why is that not acceptable?

@Wroxie

I actually volunteered on a rape crisis hotline (I am a cis woman, if it matters, and yes I'll call myself what I like, thanks) and I would be 100% happy to speak to a trans woman in any therapeutic or crisis context. It wouldn't even cross my mind to think otherwise. And yes, I have been sexually assaulted by a man - a white man, in fact, and I would also happily deal with a white person in a therapeutic setting.

As a rape crisis hotline volunteer I actually dealt with a victim who used racist language to describe the man who raped her. I told her I understood she was upset but that I needed her to please not use that word and then she went on a tangent about how 'not all blacks are n-words but this guy was' (it's a thing that particularly racist Americans love to say).

I found myself, as a Black woman, feeling upset and less able to help this particular woman, so I re-iterated that her language was unacceptable and that I would be passing her call to another colleague. That other (white) colleague also asked her to use "black" instead of "n*er" and I think she agreed, though it was a while ago. If she hadn't agreed and had continued using that word, my colleague would have probably still tried to help her, but she certainly wasn't obligated to do it.

If I were a trans woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who had a phobia or hatred of me, just as a Black woman, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was blatantly racist towards me. It's not going to be a useful therapeutic relationship for either party. But that doesn't mean that the victim gets a pass on her phobia or hatred. If she politely said "I prefer to speak to someone who isn't transgender" and she was in active crisis, probably would be best to skip over that - but if it kept coming up or she used slurs or if the only person available wasn't a cis woman, well, same thing that would have happened if there were no white colleagues available to help my racist counsellee - you either get over yourself real quick-like and take the help on offer without saying nasty shit to the people trying to help you, or you go somewhere else for help. Being a victim doesn't give you the right to victimise someone else.

Yes please do go ahead and pile on, I know you all disagree with me and some of you will probably think I'm some kind of monster. Luckily most decent and reasonable people won't agree with you and I'm writing this mainly for the people reading this who might think that every woman in the UK hates trans people - no, it's a very specific and noisy minority that gather here to shout into their echo chamber. Their noise is massively disproportionate to their actual size, thankfully.

I think you will find that we are not a noisy minority thankfully. We are a large group of women and it’s getting larger every day with every new outrage and more awareness of the fact that the rights of women and girls are under siege everywhere.

but if it kept coming up or she used slurs or if the only person available wasn't a cis woman

So, in your mind correctly sexing someone is the same as using a slur?

Asking for a female is bigoted?

I'm so sorry for you OP and myself and other survivors of sexual assault. I genuinely dont know what else to say. It is terrifying.

Comment on the article if you feel strongly
they need to know what WOMEN that have been raped think.

Don't let them dictate to anyone.

every woman in the UK hates trans people

This is quite clearly not about hating trans people.

Acknowledging that a trans person could be triggering to a rape victim and therefore should not be forced upon them as a councillor, is not hating.

@Theeyeballsinthesky yes, unfortunately, if we're talking simple majorities, most people are conservative in the nastiest of ways - racist, xenophobic, sexist, classist, transphobic, all of it. You only need to look at who gets voted into office most often to see that's true. I don't class those people as "reasonable and decent" though.

It is a simple truth that the vast majority of anti-trans social media noise does come from a surprisingly small and obsessive group of people. They make noise out of all proportion to their size. Maybe it's something the decent people of the world should learn from 😹

If a woman is not comfortable speaking to a trans woman about her trauma that doesn’t mean she hates trans people.
If a woman isn’t comfortable referring to herself as a ‘cis woman’ that doesn’t mean she hates trans people.

Regarding getting more understanding/visibility of this issue, maybe the right question to ask on Twitter is whether it would be seen as acceptable for a male victim to ask not to have a male counsellor? Or would a transwoman be able to ask not to have a male counsellor? I'm guessing it would be!

I prefer a female doctor, a female plumber, a female dentist, a female counsellor, a female postperson, a female repair person, a female manageress of a restaurant.

Absolutely @beigebrownblue And no woman should have to give any other reason for this other than their preference.

I hate the way that women's boundaries are seen as valid only after they've been violated. Unlike many of the brave women on this thread, I've not been raped or sexually assaulted (I was violently beaten about the head in a mugging by a man - and remember saying, "Well, it could have been bad - at least I wasn't raped").

But no woman should have to disclose traumatic past history in order to have her boundaries & preferences respected. All women should be able to have single-sex provision no questions asked if this is their preference.

Wroxie, how about you show a bit of empathy for women who have been raped? Your idea that a rape victim is victimising a trans woman by not engaging with them is utterly abhorrent.

Struggling to believe that someone who claims to have volunteered for a rape crisis service should be so lacking in basic compassion for rape victims and ignorance of trauma. I suppose you would have a good chance of a job at rape crisis edinburgh, though. You'd fit right in.