To think I'm just not likeable?

[Whogotdakeystomabeamer]

DD is at nursery, will be starting school in September.
Now I don't know whether I'm a) expecting too much from people b) experiencing some sort of paranoia, or c) am actually just unlikeable.
However there have been several situations recently where I think it must be the latter.

• there was a joint birthday party get together in a local park a month or so ago for two of the kids in the class. Lots of the kids went along with their parents, me included. DD points out one of the girls she talks about a lot at home, and I say to girls mum 'ahh you're X's mum, DD talks about her all the time, it's lovely to put a face to the name.'

The mum looks at me, clearly forces a smile, and doesn't say a word. A bit weird I thought but just assumed I must have misread the situation or she was having a shit day. Anyway, I've seen the same mum twice now on drop offs and pick ups and have smiled and said hello. Nothing. No acknowledgement of me whatsoever.

• the second situation is almost exactly the same - DD talks about a boy she plays with a lot. I encountered said boys dad at a leaving exhibition thing that the nursery put and and said 'ohh this is Y - we've heard so much about him.' The dad literally looks at me and turns away.

I saw him again this morning, 'morning', I said as I walked past him (bearing in mind he was looking right at me) and he just put his head down and walked past me.

It's been on my mind all day, I keep thinking have I done something, or could daughter have done something? I find it utterly bizarre behaviour for grown adults.

DH thinks I'm either completely paranoid or that I've totally misread the situation, but who sees someone and completely ignores them? Are people just rude? I don't understand it! And would I be unreasonable to ask him what his fucking problem is next time? (I obviously won't actually do this).

I wouldn't have believed it OP until it happened to me! On the play park with DC, he says oh that's my friend X, I go and say hello, the mother literally turned her face away and stared into space!

It is insane OP I have never seen that since secondary school, no idea how or why grown women would do that!

@Bortles I look at it that we are all human and a smile and a word can go a long way.

More generally I get that some people due to their own background think by being open people are somehow bound to be looking for a new best mate or are as suggested on this thread desperately trying to fit in.
But some of us were brought up that to ignore other people in situations like that is plain rude (or even the dreaded "snobby"!)
We are never going to get those viewpoints to align.😂

Is your child quite intense? My older one is. Some parents are a bit like this with me, because my child is too much for them.

It’s rude.

Whether you have sick all over you or greasy hair…or whether you are dressed up and looking fabulous. I would’ve ever ignore a smile and a hello.

But then I was raised not to be a dick and to treat people as I find them.

I’ve seen blatant snobbery at my DC’s school. It’s in an affluent area. People pick and chose their friends based on whether their face / choice of clothing fits. It’s quite sad. I struggled with it initially. I have good friends so I’m not sure why it mattered to me so much.

It’s just rude to ignore someone else in the way you have described.

I’m wondering though - is there more context? Are you known locally for something else? Someone up thread mentioned your DD being mean etc. Is there anything else that would make people react to you?

However, regardless, I would never be so rude as to ignore a smile and a hello no matter what someone’s circumstances were. DD1 is now 11 and over the years there have been a few kids who have been bullies, some additional support needs who can be pretty distributive in class, parents with obvious addiction issues / social work involvement. I still say good morning, comment on the weather etc.

[quote SmallChairs]@Wimpeyspread, I think (based on my experience) that they don’t really want the trouble of a new person who hasn’t always known them.[/quote]
Yes exactly this, really.

It is a bit rude and (in my opinion) the world would be a more pleasant place if people would give each other the time of day.

But some people don't see it that way, and are just getting on with their own stuff and don't want to talk.

Really if you initiate conversation with strangers then you have to try not to place any expectation on them reciprocating. You take a chance and if they don't return the gesture then you just try again with someone else.

I don't think you should take it personally or be offended OP - as someone else said, they don't know you to not like you. It's all to do with whatever's going on for them and how they see the world. You just need to keep trying until you find people whose outlook is more in line with yours.

This might be a first child/only child thing. I've found that as well as quite a few parents knowing each other since they were young in the same area, they have had many more years of bonding and crossing paths at gym/dancing/soft play with their kids when they have more than one child. Even the baby group that was closest to the school (not a mix of nursery schools as such) - this was a good grounding for the people I was later to meet at the school gate. Although my MIL was all for it, I did not enjoy that group all that much and didn't often go as I liked others more, so perhaps I should have read the writing on the wall. I also think that a lot of the ties are strongly underpinned by a range of social media stuff, which you're either in or not.

On a similar thread recently, someone wrote a post saying, basically, 'I don't need more friends, I find it intrusive when people try too hard and expect to be included just because of having kids the same age, I have a busy job, a dog, Mum's ill and needs support, kids' activities most days, etc., it's the last thing on my mind.' It was pretty abrupt but honest at least and not catty. The school/nursery run can be a bit stressful from start to finish and I think most people are just focussing on dealing with it and are not in a friendly mindset.

I agree but only to a certain extent. Everyone has a bad day. And how you react can depend on how confident you are feeling at the time. But I don't think all of it is down to wild extrapolations. Cliques and unfriendliness definitely exist. And it's getting worse. People haven't been taught the basics of good manners or that they should try and consider the feelings of others when possible. It's all "I'm alright Jack". Schools could do more to include newcomers too. Imho, the head teacher usually set the tone with this sort of thing.

There’s a difference between being friends and being friendly.

I didn’t like one of DDs primary friends or her mother. I was always friendly to the mum, had her in for cups of tea, chatted to her. The girls aren’t friends anymore, so I don’t see her, she’s not my friend though. It’s like a business relationship.

I wonder if it’s easier in secondary as the kids arrange their own social life and if parents aren’t friendly they won’t know who they are out with or whose house they are round at.

Gah, sorry, my post below was meant to be in response to thepeopleversuswork but the quote didn't appear for some reason!

@Whogotdakeystomabeamer You sound lovely 😊 I'd continue to say hello with a big smile on your face and not let their response get to you.

I've got a 6 month old and we recently went to a baby class. The other Mum's were VERY cliquey (all knew each other) and it was blazingly obvious who the 'queen bee' was. I said hello and smiled. I got a very half hearted smile back and then they all kept themselves away after that. It felt awkward at first til I realised the group wasn't about them, it was about time with my baby.

The school/nursery run can be a bit stressful from start to finish and I think most people are just focussing on dealing with it and are not in a friendly mindset.

Exactly, I quite often am so focused on dealing with whingy children, carrying lots of stuff, keeping an eye on the time, answering work emails... it's not a social part of the day, i am not relaxed and "being myself".

Having said that I wouldn't ever blank a person who looked directly at me said hello- but I might not catch your eye and smile even if I know you - unless I'm in a more relaxed frame of mind.

It’s not you! Friend and I recently discussed similar experiences. Some parents at the nursery and baby classes don’t say hello - either they were not taught manners, they don’t even realise, they are shy or not great communicators, they can’t be bothered or are genuinely frazzled or distracted, maybe even regret it later and hope they didn’t come across as rude and will be cut some slack? The catty ones who like a bit of conflict and enjoy little acts of malice are the worst...powered by insecurity and fishing for a reaction I’m convinced though that all these people behaving like jerks think they are nice and kind people (perhaps just a bit more important, bit busier, bit more deserving than others)

“I don’t need more friends”

It’s a smile and a hello at another human being.

You have a long road ahead, take nothing at all personally, and stop worrying about it, or worse still measuring your own value and personality because of their poor behaviour. We don't know what is happening with them, so leave them to it, and stick to the friendly types and hope your dc gravitate towards them also or you have years of making conversation on doorsteps after playdates with people that are difficult!! See it as a learning experience.

Schools could do more to include newcomers too. Imho, the head teacher usually set the tone with this sort of thing.

Yes, that would have made quite a difference. The feel is that the PTA sets the tone, but if that is not a grapevine you are really closely linked to, even term dates and how occasional days affect them, end of term picnics, 'wear a hat' days, enrolment for cycling proficiency etc. are still a bit of a closed shop, and somehow easier for people who've been through it with an older child at the same school. Again it hurts the first few times, but it helps to get a thicker skin if you can't change it very much.

Some people just aren't friendly / are rude. It's off-putting, all you can do is maintain your own standards.

I've met them all over the years , the friendly ones, the aloof ones, the Queen bees , the downright unfriendly rude ones.
It does hurt if people make zero effort , but at least you know who to avoid.
Where I live most people either went to school with each other or are related to each other and most of them are best avoided ( not all of course )
I've learnt to just be polite , do your own thing and treat the school gates as just a pick up / drop off area for your child. Nothing else.
I loved watching the cliques because it always ended in tears and drama , honestly your better off out of it , mostly.

@Badgersdrift

Cliques and unfriendliness definitely exist

They do exist but in my experience they are massively overstated. The vast majority of the time if you actually hear both sides of these situations the person who is supposed to have done the sleighting is usually totally unaware of what's happened/having a bad day/short-sighted/thought the other person didn't like them/shy or anxious.

So much is read into these little interactions, often leading to long drawn out sulks and social awkwardness, and in a tiny tiny minority of cases is it actually down to deliberate rudeness.

People tie themselves up in knots worrying about this sort of thing and mostly they are doing needless damage to their own self-esteem because they are worrying about stuff that doesn't actually matter.

The thing that annoys me about it is that 90% of the time this is women getting het up and anxious about how they perceive their own status to be among other women -- which is all bullshit in the first place. Men generally don't worry about this sort of thing because they are better at charging ahead without overthinking stuff.

And its such an enormous drain on peoples energy, ambition and wellness. It holds women back so much.

I swear if I read another "school mums are out to get me" thread I will shoot myself.

The cliques and unfriendliness can hurt though ; I know I was able to deal with anything like that ( because I learnt not to care) but not everyone can and when your told ' you'll make friends for life at playgroups or nursery or school ' and it doesn't happen , it can be a bit of a knock back. People have become more insular since lockdown as well.
I'm part of a little group of friends from work I see now and again that I have known years now ( not that often and none of us have little ones anymore either etc) but I would still say hello to anyone new I saw around or pass the time of day if they joined our group or whatever , it's just common curtesy isn't it? It's only this year we have met up more than once, which is very unusual to be honest!
Mind you, my real friends don't live near to me so it's nice not having the clique thing going on too. I prefer one to one meet ups too if I'm honest , big groups of people can be tricky too!
It is hard when you have little ones though

I swear if I read another "school mums are out to get me" thread I will shoot myself.

thepeopleversuswork I have agreed with many aspects of your posts throughout , especially with regard to prople being stressed, preoccupied, busy, and being careful not to reqd more in to that.

And I firmly believe that in every school environment, however unfriendly, there are always one or two friendly and kind people with whom you can make friends. And if they are not apparent immediately, you can usually find them by putting the work in and volunteering. That has been my rl experience anyway.

I think a selfishness and unfriendliness does sometimes exist above and beyond people being focused on their own busy lives.

And I don't think that everyone has the self confidence to shrug off a negative reaction in the way you describe. And that's when you are the same age/nationality/class as everyone else around you. Imagine how much harder it is if you come from a different culture for example, or speak a different language?

I disagree that the solution is that women need to become more like men. I think it lies in people , where humanly possible, sparing a thought for others.

when your told ' you'll make friends for life at playgroups or nursery or school ' and it doesn't happen , it can be a bit of a knock back.

I think this is the problem though. Too many people take the attitude that playgroup/school is an opportunity to get a social life handed to you on a plate without doing any work. Then they get the hump when they don't walk away with a bunch of brand new friends.

There's something weird that happens to adult women in particular about the "school gate" network. They assume its all going to be like going back to school themselves and its all going to be a blast. And then of course they feel cheated because its just like any other area of your life: You have to work at it and it isn't handed to you. Surprise surprise.

You're not automatically entitled to make friends with everyone who has kids in the same nursery/school as your kids. Some people will like you, some won't. Some people won't have time. Some people are ill, or overworked, or depressed or whatever. Some are arseholes but most are not, they just have other things going on in their lives. It's not personal. It just means you aren't everyone else's top priority.

There's no excuse to be explicitly rude, but most of the time what this boils down to is people getting pissed off because they aren't automatically invited to everything going. I think its quite childish.

@Iusedtobesoooomuchfun

Oh I hate people like this. It's like they are terrified you want to be their best friend! No, I just want to say Hi and have a non committed, friendly chat with the parent of the child my kids loves!

They are either rude or in their own heads too much.

Don't take it personally OP. I'm sure you're lovely. (you may also be a complete dickhead🤣)

I agree with this! As a single parent who does a lot with my child alone people assume i'm going to be some sort of clinger on, or like their best friend or something when that's not the case at all. I'm just being polite friendly and sociable. A lot of school mums are stuck up and clicky, of course some aren't but definitely don't take it personally OP

@Badgersdrift

I think your point is very valid when you're talking about people of different nationalities, outside the area etc. Then it must be pretty intimidating and particularly in rural communities where everyone went to primary school together etc. That must be really tough.

But seriously there are so many of these threads where Mum A pops up and says Mum B looked at her funny or that she wasn't included on a WhatsApp thread which other mums were on etc. And then a bunch of people pile on saying: "oh all school gate mums are bitches" and "Oh the cliques were awful, I barely survived," etc etc.

If you actually break these situations down and examine what happened in the cold light of day, nine times out of ten its people with too much time on their hands getting bent out of shape because of some incredibly trivial interaction where someone who was clearly busy or preoccupied overlooked them by accident.

And I hate the way that becomes an opening for people to call women "bitches" or say "people who join the PTA are all snobs" or "why are other mums so bitchy" or whatever. Its both entitled and lazy and somehow misogynistic as well.

I wish I had your confidence. I don't know how to start a conversation.

Unless you've experienced other versions of this throughout your life, it's unlikely to be you.