To think this is CF expectation

[Habber]

Backstory is my kids DF (my ex) was a bit crap, had them once a week for 1 night, never took a day off if they were sick (even though he worked closer to school than I did) rarely helped with childcare during school holidays, never helped pay for any childcare while we both worked and gave bare minimum child support. His family never helped with kids and if he did ever take them on holiday in summer it was always in term time which was no help at all in terms of 6 week summer holidays.

Now he has a child under 5 and expects our older kids (over 16) to be his free childcare for their sibling all day during the holidays. Neither of my kids drive yet so there is a lot of back and forth with picking them up and dropping off. One of my children chose to say no thanks to it this year and under pressure from ex and older child has now given in. I was dragged into it when one of my kids was pressuring the other one to agree and now they aren’t speaking to me because I said he was being a CF.

AIBU to think you book your own paid for childcare like the rest of working parents have to? Just because you are family doesn’t mean they must babysit for you to save money?

I would ask your DDs what you think your ex spends their money on instead of paying for childcare.

OP you haven't failed your children.

He has and is still doing so by manipulating and guilt tripping them.

You've stood up to him today and said you're not doing the lifts. Good on you.

You're setting a good example in doing this.

It's 100% his responsibility to facilitate contact with his teens and in turn with their half sibling.

You can't keep papering over the cracks here to keep the peace and protect your children from realising he's a shitty father whose prepared to blackmail his children by threatening to withhold access to their half sibling.

That's going to happen whatever you do.

Because of who he is, if not over this issue, but another he will show them the man he is, not the father they want him to be.

You cannot change this outcome because you cannot change him.

What you can do as per my pp is to disengage, block him to separate your life and actions as a parent from his and allow your children to reach their own conclusions about his shitty behaviour (which believe me they will in time).

The past is the past.

Move on firmly.

Completely dis engaging from this man and also being very clear that you will have absolutely nothing to do with facilitating him using your children.

Block his number.

Your children may disagree with you.
That is THEIR choice.

Just be consistent and firm that you do not wish to discuss him or his childcare needs.

Just to add OP I think you need to re-frame what's happened here.

In a way he's given you a gift.

You say your children know deep down he's behaving badly.

Good.

That means he's given you this opportunity, right now to re-focus and re-set your boundaries in circumstances that your children know he's the one who was the catalyst for this by being selfish and taking the piss out of all 3 of you.

As a pp said it's time to let the past go and move forward with a different dynamic where he is no longer able to manipulate you, because you've totally blocked/disengaged from his cuntery.

DC1 thought I am joking about the lifts and now offering me money to take them so they don’t have to stay overnight there

@Habber

DC1 thought I am joking about the lifts and now offering me money to take them so they don’t have to stay overnight there

Just say no. And keep saying it.

@Habber

DC1 thought I am joking about the lifts and now offering me money to take them so they don’t have to stay overnight there

Why would they think you would joke about this? That’s odd.

He can pick them up and drop the off and pay them the going rate for babysitting - otherwise, it's a no go! He can't expect you and your kids to be running around and inconvenienced for his responsibilities - surely?

She is now feeling the cognitive dissonance. That is good, push harder here. "So, you actually WANT to pay to babysit? You are aware that you could advertise yourself and other people would pay YOU to babysit?"

Another idea would be - what would you estimate 4 weeks petrol money would be? Perhaps offer that amount to your kids to share between them for treats for their summer holiday. They could be spending their time relaxing in the park, with snacks etc.

@Habber

DC1 thought I am joking about the lifts and now offering me money to take them so they don’t have to stay overnight there

That not the solution.

It's not just about time or money. It's about boundaries.

It's not yours or their responsibility to provide free childcare for their father.

If they want to do this, then they are old enough to make that decision but not at the expense of dragging you or their sibling into the drama.

If that means staying overnight with their father that's the deal.

If they want to "negotiate" this point then they can do with their father who can give them a lift home or pay for an Uber after all the money he's saved on free childcare.

You need to make clear this is not your problem to solve.

Rinse and repeat as often as you need to in a calm, disinterested voice.

I’m going to go to sleep now and just keep sticking to my guns thanks for your time in giving me advice on this

@Habber

I’m going to go to sleep now and just keep sticking to my guns thanks for your time in giving me advice on this

Sleep well.

You're not the "bad guy" here - quite the reverse.

OP glad you have stood up for yourself - could you also think about how you could help your dc's stand up for themselves?

I know a lot of pp's are saying they are old enough to stand up for themselves but if he is utterly awful to them it is incredibly hard for them to do this.

I agree that you were right to say no to the lifts but can you now help them to feel sufficiently empowered to say no to their "d"f?

At 40 something my then 70 something dm told me several times not to stick up for myself and young ds when my dsis was being incredibly difficult/nasty.

This was because she was scared my dsis would blow up/kick off like my "d"f used to do. DM would throw me & DS under a bus to avoid upsetting dsis. DF died many yrs ago so no longer have to deal with his shenanigans.

I realised very recently that until I had DS I have literally never stuck up for myself in my whole life. I've had to challenge DM and dsis in order to stick up for DS and it has been truly awful at times.

I'm finally learning to stick up for myself but (as Richard Gere says I'm Pretty Woman) it's taken thousands in therapy to get anywhere near there.

You're not married to him anymore. He can't hurt you. Help them see that too if you can. They deserve to have lives too xx

@billy1966

Kindly OP,

You have been utterly failing your children for facilitating and allowing them to be used by this man.

Do you wish them to grow up as complete doormats?

I'm glad to read you have now said No.

Verbalise clearly that YOU will NOT be used.

Nor will you facilitate in any way their bei g used either.

Be firm, strong, completely unapologetic for your stance.

Model NOT being a doormat to your children.

Yip 🌸

@SusieSusieSoo

OP glad you have stood up for yourself - could you also think about how you could help your dc's stand up for themselves?

I know a lot of pp's are saying they are old enough to stand up for themselves but if he is utterly awful to them it is incredibly hard for them to do this.

I agree that you were right to say no to the lifts but can you now help them to feel sufficiently empowered to say no to their "d"f?

At 40 something my then 70 something dm told me several times not to stick up for myself and young ds when my dsis was being incredibly difficult/nasty.

This was because she was scared my dsis would blow up/kick off like my "d"f used to do. DM would throw me & DS under a bus to avoid upsetting dsis. DF died many yrs ago so no longer have to deal with his shenanigans.

I realised very recently that until I had DS I have literally never stuck up for myself in my whole life. I've had to challenge DM and dsis in order to stick up for DS and it has been truly awful at times.

I'm finally learning to stick up for myself but (as Richard Gere says I'm Pretty Woman) it's taken thousands in therapy to get anywhere near there.

You're not married to him anymore. He can't hurt you. Help them see that too if you can. They deserve to have lives too xx

I understand where you are coming from, but it's really important that the OP erects and maintains clear boundaries with her Ex.

The only way to help her children is to lead by example.

She can't make them see their father is a selfish and manipulative man because to do so she'd have to discuss/disclose his (many) flaws and poor behaviours.

That's feeds right into his playbook. That's she's nasty, mean and unreasonable.

Sadly they have to come to those conclusions for themselves. Something they won't/can't do if she keeps smoothing the way (even with the best of intentions).

The elder child in particular is behaving as if in FOG.

Acting out of fear, obligation and guilt (OP you might want to research FOG - outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt).

Fear of her father's disapproval, obligation to her half sibling and guilt about leaving him without childcare.

Part of living in FOG is a susceptibility to self sacrifice to appease the person responsible and the request to pay the OP for lifts is textbook.

They can't see the irony in spending their summer job money to subside their father not having to pay for childcare.

The OP won't help her children out of the FOG by railing against their father. She'll push them deeper into it as he manipulates them (and her) further.

She can only refuse to play his game by disengaging.

@Habber

I’m going to go to sleep now and just keep sticking to my guns thanks for your time in giving me advice on this

Stand your ground ... 🌸

@Habber

I’m going to go to sleep now and just keep sticking to my guns thanks for your time in giving me advice on this

Sleep well and stick to those guns.

This is about more than that wankers childcare.

OP, if discussions are still ongoing with DC1 tomorrow I'd suggest you respond as follows (but in your own words).

"You are not speaking to the right parent about this issue.

If you want to look after your half sibling, then the conditions under which you are prepared to do that need to discussed with your father.

Be that the amount of time you're prepared to give or how you get to his house and back.

If he isn't prepared to meet those conditions you have a right to say no.

Just as I do and does your sibling, because it's not our responsibility to provide free childcare.

If your sibling doesn't want to do this then it's not your responsibility to lobby them into compliance on your father's behalf because you're unwilling to "do it all".

It's his responsibility to incentivise both of you into wanting to do this, either through providing transportation or paying for the service you're providing.

Even then it's still ok to say no. The same way I'm saying no, because childcare is the responsibility of the parents, not the elder children or ex partner.

I respect that your old enough to make your own decisions. You need to respect that your sibling and I can do the same and my decision is firm and final.

So if you want to move forward with this, speak to your father. Negotiate with him, the person who wants the favour and stop discussing it with me."

Put your foot down and stop facilitating this madness

Op, I’ve been thinking about this thread and about how you did not disclose the sex of either child. I can’t help but wonder if the child who has capitulated to being a free nanny is female and the child who has refused is male. If this is a case of patriarchal expectations being placed on women as caregivers, I actually think you need to step in and out a stop to this.

Kids I have cared for you with your dad being more of an active obstruction than a help nearly all your life. I am not providing any free input to care for his other child!! He can bloody well pay a professional like I had to, he isn’t disadvantaged by my having offloaded serious debt onto him and run off with the goods bought with that debt, or a careers and income slowed by working around wvery school holiday. I love you, but I owe your dad absolutely nothing and that’s what he’s getting from me in terms of childcare for his other child. Including lifts so he can keep pressuring you into being his free childcare instead of being a parent to you like he should be.

They are old enough to hear it in black and white.

@Wolframhart

Op, I’ve been thinking about this thread and about how you did not disclose the sex of either child. I can’t help but wonder if the child who has capitulated to being a free nanny is female and the child who has refused is male. If this is a case of patriarchal expectations being placed on women as caregivers, I actually think you need to step in and out a stop to this.

Morning no they both female but younger one is clued up that he is awful and came to that decision by herself a while ago. She doesn’t like conflict so doesn’t like getting into rows so can avoid him more than stand up for herself she knows her own mind and just doesn’t engage in a lot of things. She sees her sibling on her own terms usually and not that frequently but to the older child this is even more reason to make DC2 help out and DC2 gave in to shut DC1 up

He's expecting you to deliver his free childcare to and from the door as well? Despite not actually doing his share with your joint children? So he sees childcare of a child, that has nothing to do with you, as more your responsibility than his?

His entitlement is astounding!

@Habber

He’s got money and a nice big house, we have always struggled and a lot of it was barriers he put in my way on purpose, he left me with kids almost full time and no money.

Then he can pay for a cab/taxi to/from his house if he wants his elder children to provide childcare for his younger. The distance or costs involved in this is not your problem - particularly as a) he's then getting free childcare and b) he left you with a load of debt to bring up your joint children.

You have to be strong and consistent here, OP and not facilitate this arrangement any more. Your children need support in not being manipulated by their uncaring father - and you are being manipulated by your Ex through your children. 🌹

Keep supporting your DDs to say no. This is the best lesson you can teach them.

If their dad is only happy with them when they are providing services on his terms then they need to understand that.