If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

Every single new home should have photovoltaics, an underground rainwater tank for toilet flushing and the latest eco boiler.

These need to also be massively discounted for every other house and the aim needs to be to have as many buildings as possible converted to as many green alternatives as possible.

There would have to be a phenomenal increase in buses to cater for commuters. I worked out that to get to my old place of work I'd have to leave home at 6am, walk 2 miles into town, get two buses with a 30 minute wait between them, and at the other end walk 2 miles along a road with no pavement, to arrive at work by 10am. It's a 20 minute drive!

@Empressofthemundane

Perhaps it’s really overpopulation that is the problem?

Haven't there been studies done to show that's not the case?

Veggie or vegan diets and dialling back on over consumption seem to be some of the main solutions.

@Empressofthemundane

Perhaps it’s really overpopulation that is the problem?

Yet the governments encouraged immigration for the past 30 years' hence having to keep building houses and leading to more cars on the road.

@wherearemychickens

LemonSwan - look up the State of Nature reports from 2016 and 2019. We've seen really bad falls (c.30 - 40%) in abundance and range of wildlife since the 1970s. Insect decline is really really scary.

Its true we lost a lot of fauna. But if you look at the history we lost most of our fauna a long long way before that. Its only due to anthropogenic maintenance that we retained such good insect diversity (from a very small original diversity) for so long. Ie. Wildflower meadows management.

So we might look like we have done badly compared to other countries. Statistically it might look like that, but its simply not true in reality if you understand the context which predated 1970, and the context now. That sounds like I am dismissing. Its not there isn't damage. But to say its worse than Europe is just not true.

Many european countries have fragile systems. They have declining indigenous flora as well as fauna and they do not have the conditions to remedy this without wiping out their natural species.

Say if you look at Spain, Italy, France and the general med countries. Xyella is one step away from wiping most of their indigenous flora and by extension their insect communities and then their general wildlife. So when we look at the big picture - on paper they might look like they are doing OK. But they are really not, its very concerning.

I think it's really bad, but try not to think about it as I feel quite helpless about the situation. I think that my carbon footprint is probably smaller than most as I don't drive, and fly rarely. I also avoid fast fashion.

I know people who are very preachy and vocal about climate change, and yet they own a car and drive everywhere, have more than two kids, own cats and dogs, go on foreign holidays at least once a year etc etc. All very well for them to criticise others, as long as they aren't inconvenienced themselves.

We are not panicking because we are doing sensible things like closing coal fired power stations. We are using less plastic.
Unfortunately we cannot convince other countries like Germany to give up coal power. Some countries like Poland or Botswana cannot afford to make the changes quickly, but they are starting.
It is progressing.
Can we afford to equip our homes with Charging points for cars?
Where will the money come from for re supplying the local electricity grid?
In the war against cars that many councils are waging against families they have forgotten that for most of us the first task of the day is to get 4 people to 4 different destinations between 7.30 and 9.00am.
Schools are not planned on easy to reach sites and Public Transport is a joke in most small towns.

We are not panicking because we are doing sensible things like closing coal fired power stations. We are using less plastic

I thought we were opening up a new coal field and more licenses for oil exploration? only putting them on hold pre COP26.
Germany has more CO2 emissions because it has not off shored so much manufacturing to Asia/China as the UK has.

Are we using less plastics? not noticed any such thing, almost everything is encased in the stuff.

The UK is a past master at lying about its pollution, not least what we allow in our rivers, every single one is polluted with sewage, as our many beaches.

Again, global warming is a global issue not a local issue. It doesn't matter where in the world the migrant is. What does happen is when people move from a high fertility rate country to a low fertility, within a couple of generations they revert to the low fertility norm of the country they are living in so, from a global warming perspective, this migration is a good thing.

@lannistunut

It is really, really bad.

We are not panicking more because humans are not always good at processing extreme risk, or dealing with our utter lack of control.

The fact the government is opening up more fossil fuel projects is making me feel both furious and completely powerless.

This - AND we've been 'boiled frog' on it by the media and the many deniers, some very high profile.

Having read this thread and agree with many of the views, I now worry that we risk feeling so depressed, helpless and fatalistic - ‘we’re all doomed’ - that people will feel there is no point in doing anything as it will make no difference.

It’s really interesting when people complain about China and India.. they make almost all the products we consume in the West.
We are responsible for their pollution.

And yes it’s bad, we need radical action on it.

@Marimaur

It’s really interesting when people complain about China and India.. they make almost all the products we consume in the West. We are responsible for their pollution.

Exactly. If we didn’t buy it, they wouldn’t bother to manufacture it.

I now worry that we risk feeling so depressed, helpless and fatalistic - ‘we’re all doomed’ - that people will feel there is no point in doing anything as it will make no difference.
Yes. I think it’s important to highlight that the IPCC report still has a glimmer of hope and that’s it’s not too late if we act NOW: some stuff is irreversible, yes, but the window of action is still open. This is the year.

@SlipperyDippery but again, we can't leave this down to individual choice because never will everyone suddenly be like ok let's not buy stuff made in China. Most people can't afford to for a start but basically human psychology is like well unless someone physically stops me I'll keep doing it because everyone else is. We would need our government to ban any imports from China, for example, for there to be any impact.

@burritofan sorry but reports have been saying that for decades now, and it's make fuck all difference. Now, the actions needed are so drastic as to be pragmatically impossible. So, we are fucked, sorry 😢

@Marimaur

It’s really interesting when people complain about China and India.. they make almost all the products we consume in the West. We are responsible for their pollution.

Exactly-and all the pollution for transporting it, and all the landfill when we dump it after a couple of years.

What we need to do is stop tinkering round the edges and have hard rules to stop selfishness. Limit the thermostats on homes to 21 degrees, allow one car per household, build places of work in residential areas, ban cars from city centres.

We had a great opportunity to continue WFH to stop the commute, to limit flying, but it appears we would rather save inner city sandwich shops than the planet.

We need to adapt to a new way of life. But the problem is money, we serve it not the other way round. People are obsessed with buying stuff they don’t need, we make stuff that doesn’t last, we’re caught in the consumerism cult, that is what is destroying the planet,

But people are addicted to the drug of spending, they get a rush on buying wearable plastics from primark by the sackful. Until we can break this addiction things will just get worse

FWIW, the UK will probably reach the point of a carbon tax, partly to make up for the shortfall in other taxes and partly to align interests, once this becomes clearly in the interests of the structures that control decisions. Whether the UK (and other nations) do this quickly enough is another question.

It’s really interesting when people complain about China and India.. they make almost all the products we consume in the West.
We are responsible for their pollution.

True that.

As some PPs have said, the acquaintances of mine who are most preachy tend to be the richest with the largest families, use most long haul flights, have second and third homes and complain about taxation and government interference the most, unless it helps socialise the losses in 2008, 2020 and so on.

This is a very informative read:

advisory.kpmg.us/articles/2021/limits-to-growth.html

It's looking back at predictions made in the early 70s and seeing how accurate, or otherwise, they are.

What we need to do is stop tinkering round the edges and have hard rules to stop selfishness. Limit the thermostats on homes to 21 degrees, allow one car per household, build places of work in residential areas, ban cars from city centres

Bloody hell! i think 18'C is boiling and if i feel cold, i just put an extra layer on, doesn't everyone do that? (yes i know they don't :( )

There is absolutely loads the UK could do but doesn't, trams, trains, buses, better insulated houses (uk ones are the worst in europe) heat pumps, hydrogen boilers.... all of this create huge numbers of jobs!

If we nationalised energy companies and generation, we could have not for profit companies running domestic energy billing and production.

But we have a fucking idiot in power and unfortunately, he will say the right things but do SFA and i suspect the US will elect Trump again in 2024.

@markmichelle

We are not panicking because we are doing sensible things like closing coal fired power stations. We are using less plastic. Unfortunately we cannot convince other countries like Germany to give up coal power. Some countries like Poland or Botswana cannot afford to make the changes quickly, but they are starting. It is progressing. Can we afford to equip our homes with Charging points for cars? Where will the money come from for re supplying the local electricity grid? In the war against cars that many councils are waging against families they have forgotten that for most of us the first task of the day is to get 4 people to 4 different destinations between 7.30 and 9.00am. Schools are not planned on easy to reach sites and Public Transport is a joke in most small towns.

I think the reason we're doomed is that we think other countries should be doing things and we can continue as we are.

Are you aware that a new coal field is happening in west cumbria and many locals want it because of 'jobs'.

I have never been so grateful to be in my 60s. The fact is that, no matter how much people deny it, or refuse to voluntarily adjust their habits and lifestyles - change is coming - if not mandated by governments, then as a result of the effects of climate change. It will be unavoidable. I am so sorry for those who are going to have to live with it. Whilst I'm still around (no kids) I'll do my best to limit my contribution to climate change, but my actions will be insignificant and of more benefit to my conscience than anything else. The future relies on there being people with the knowledge, the intelligence, the courage and the influence to make the huge adjustments to global lifestyle norms that will be necessary to preserve as much human life as possible. I hope we find those people.

@Inextremis - I’m 4 years younger than you and, like you, no children. Also like you, I am very glad of both.