If it’s that bad, why aren’t we panicking more??

[Nightgardenisodd]

Climate change.
I keep reading posts about it and it’s scaring the crap out of me for my DD’s future.
How bad is it? Anyone have any positivity about it?

I would be interested in looking at some sources for that. I genuinely mean it, I am trying to discipline myself into reading original studies and evidence-based predictions, and prepared to changed my mind.

So seriously interested that you haven’t bothered to look?

You could start with that article I posted and check theirs out. There was some material coming out of KU Leuven and Utrecht University that I stumbled across. Shouldn’t be hard to find.

Throughout my life I’ve watched consumerism ramp up and the ideological emphasis on individual solutions over collective ones, for instance, destroy any chances for individuals of poorer background, here and elsewhere. Always the same triviality from those who really had the power to choose something different, always the same excuses. I’m through. Look at what’s actually out there, actually learn something about how society and the environment has changed. Do your own research instead of subtly trying to undermine those who have.

My car costs way more than a bus but it’s more convenient. The bus takes 4-5 times as long. That’s not realistic when you have to get to work on time and get home to pick up your kids. How am I supposed to drop off DC at 8am and get to work by 9am when the bus would take 2hrs from school to work? But it’s perfectly doable in a car because it’s a 30 minute drive.

The problem is that our lives have become too dispersed. Local businesses have closed down. Local shops have closed down. Now to access work and shopping we need to travel perhaps 20 miles, and realistically the only way to do that is in a car.

You could start with that article I posted and check theirs out. There was some material coming out of KU Leuven and Utrecht University that I stumbled across. Shouldn’t be hard to find.
But the article you posted actually says that they are expecting to cope - in some scenarios with some abandonment, in some scenarios with actually reclaiming additional land, with the decision to be finely balanced based on the multitude of factors. As literally any other decision of that magnitude. Nowhere does it say that the Netherlands are going to "vanish under the waves" in the next 50 years as you put it.

Look at what’s actually out there, actually learn something about how society and the environment has changed. Do your own research instead of subtly trying to undermine those who have.
Ah, great, so you're an actual climate researcher?

I think we need more education overall. Young people are talking more and more about this but where is the real education. Not the scaremongering, not the focus on the disaster heading our way but rather how do try to stop it happening or limit the damage. Its easy to blame society and everyone else including governments etc but we need to start looking at and building a future. No one signed up for this, we cant blame people who were brought into a world based on consumerism etc, we need to change the thinking.

Things keep changing. We were all advised to get diesel cars, cheaper and cleaner, now its proven they are not but getting a new car is unaffordable for most.
Wehrn my child was little our nursery was encouraged to buy plastic, long lasting, saving the trees etc etc not its stop the plastic as its killing the environment yet the government still provide thousands of free plastic toothbrushes every year within its schools.
So we cant blame the very people who were born into this society that we live in that technically we never made. Had humans all those years ago realised the damage that was going to cause many just like today would have stood up and forced change. Thats what we need now.

It is really bad but then it never seems to stop any of my friends (and probably a good proportion of the people on this thread) booking foreign holidays left right and and buying second homes - both of which are bad environment wise.

Psychologically, people are unwilling to make sacrifices now for future benefit. Hence boomers and their environmentally disastrous cruises.

@Soberanne

I think we need more education overall. Young people are talking more and more about this but where is the real education. Not the scaremongering, not the focus on the disaster heading our way but rather how do try to stop it happening or limit the damage. Its easy to blame society and everyone else including governments etc but we need to start looking at and building a future. No one signed up for this, we cant blame people who were brought into a world based on consumerism etc, we need to change the thinking.

We certainly don't need more education! we need action, so ban polluting lorries, how many of use have followed a vehicle pouring out smoke? build houses out of recycled plastic - look at Nudura? uk housing is the worse in europe for energy use.

On shore manufacturing, so we have more control on pollution and reduce shipping, more localised manufacturing, again less shipping.

More transport by rail.

But what is desperately missing is leadership, looking at the UK, we have (at heart) a climate denier as our PM and the USA may well vote in Trump or similar in 3 years time.

It maybe that China provides the world leadership on Climate change?

@jasjas1973 of course we need more education. We need to educate our children from a young age so they can make informed choices. Education leads to action. Already on here there are people learnjng about the risks and how we an change. How can we vote in a government that can made a difference if we are not educated in what needs to change and why. Its our youth of today who will soon be the bigger voters, its their future, howmany people on here have already stated that they will be dead by the time i happens so they struggle to relate.

No-one actually knows anything because the data is corrupted.
Have your winter heating bills gone down yet?

"so ban polluting lorries, how many of use have followed a vehicle pouring out smoke?"

But that addresses a local pollution problem - particulates. A substantial part of the carbon cost of road transport is in the manufacturing of the vehicles. Scraping them before the end of their life adds to the overall CO2 production, rather than reducing it. There is balance to be stuck between local and global pollution. Local pollution is easy to see so people get fixated on that to the detriment of global warming.

25 years ago i didn't want to learn to drive because of the climate and I was vegan...people thought I was mad and I got so much grief. I even wanted to move to an eco villiage.
I try to teach dd about recycling and cosumption...she rolls her eyes and thinks im mad.

@jasjas1973

it maybe that China provides the world leadership on climate change

ha, China. China that is still building brand new coal fired power stations and is projected to keep increasing coal use over the next ten years. Coal is one of THE biggest causes of greenhouse gas emissions. China is also one of the world’s biggest users of cement which is also environmentally egregious.

Flights v trains is still a cost and time thing. We live a 2hr flight away. With Ryanair, no frill flights as low as £9 each way.
Train takes 16-20 hrs, requires 3-4 train changes, costs £180 min each way.
We have taken the train in the past, but its definitely not as convenient.

Also car v bus. Where we live buses run hourly 6am-10am, nothing again until 2pm, then last bus at 8pm. Last bus 2pm Saturday and no buses at all Sunday. It’s just not convenient. Everyone choices to walk, cycle or car over taking the bus.

[quote Thingaling]@jasjas1973

it maybe that China provides the world leadership on climate change

ha, China. China that is still building brand new coal fired power stations and is projected to keep increasing coal use over the next ten years. Coal is one of THE biggest causes of greenhouse gas emissions. China is also one of the world’s biggest users of cement which is also environmentally egregious.[/quote]
Yet still per person, China trails the US on GH gasses! and China is very much effected by climate change as it relies on imports of foods, raw materials and has seen earthquakes and floods.

My point is that the US cannot be guaranteed to be so keen on tackling climate so who will step up?

I’m waiting for the ippc report with baited breath today. I don’t think it will be pretty.
It’s definitely not pretty. www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/09/humans-have-caused-unprecedented-and-irreversible-change-to-climate-scientists-warn

@Thingaling

It is really bad but then it never seems to stop any of my friends (and probably a good proportion of the people on this thread) booking foreign holidays left right and and buying second homes - both of which are bad environment wise. Psychologically, people are unwilling to make sacrifices now for future benefit. Hence boomers and their environmentally disastrous cruises.

Exactly, nobody has come up with a convincing argument as to why I should make my already shit life even worse in order to benefit people who aren't even born yet.

Give me a well-insulated new home that is 100% green, powered by renewable energy, and I'll live in it. Give me an electric car and I'll drive it. But don't expect me to agree to struggle even more because that way things will be better in 50 or 100 years than they otherwise would be.

I would also add that I think a lot of the justification for flying (for example) that otherwise "green" people make is that on an individual level nothing we do will make a difference. It doesn't matter if I take a cruise or not (btw - I'm not, they sound horrific), it doesn't matter if I fly or not (btw - one return flight in past 10 years, six return flights in my life), it doesn't matter that I use as much single use plastic as possible (btw - I do ) - all my actions are statistically irrelevant.

All that matters is what everyone else does. If they care, they can make the changes. If they don't, fair enough.

The only way anything will happen on a large enough scale to make a difference is if multiple governments worldwide take huge decisions about banning certain energy sources/activities etc and make various things illegal.

There is no way of individuals making enough of a difference on their own. Governments won't take this kind of drastic action because there would be huge economic and social consequences eg poverty, protests to name a few. Right wing leaders would then get elected and reverse everything so it would be futile.

Therefore we are all fucked.

The IPCC have released their latest report this morning.

Full report, summaries, faqs, and other material can be found on link below.

www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/?cf_chl_jschl_tk=pmd_53a162a45e1171a47986505fe85e47aab66b9d57-1628500943-0-gqNtZGzNAeKjcnBszQji

And in the interest of fairness a couple of articles from papers on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

The Guardian's take
www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/09/humans-have-caused-unprecedented-and-irreversible-change-to-climate-scientists-warn?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

The Daily Mail's take
mol.im/a/9875079

Therefore we are all fucked.
Yup. And even if individual action did help, this thread shows it ain’t going to happen en masse – from “but my wet ears!” to “but my car!” via “who cares about future generations lol not me”, this thread alone is basically a microcosm of selfish society

I meant globally selfish. I perfectly understand of income brackets myself am single parent working all hours just to keep up with cost of living , all the countries in the world need to be in this altogether and they are not ... and until that happens then personally I think it's just going to get worse . It just so so sad 😞

@malificent7

25 years ago i didn't want to learn to drive because of the climate and I was vegan...people thought I was mad and I got so much grief. I even wanted to move to an eco villiage. I try to teach dd about recycling and cosumption...she rolls her eyes and thinks im mad.

I find it difficult where I work as some people are so cynical about where the recycling goes there and still go through bottled water even though there is a cooler and buy take away coffees - there are clear recycling bins etc. Covid has made it worse with disposable masks.

It's also the buying of fast food and packaging that is not helping

I know it's a drop in the ocean

Ooh if no one bought from the fast food & coffee shops etc then less jobs

@GreatAuntEmily

On the radio 4 news just now - the gov make 20 billion pounds a year in tax from fuel, petrol etc, what do you replace that with if everyone has electric cars. Something else will need to be taxed to raise that amount.

They'll tax the road use instead.

Also what happens to all the old cars

@burritofan

Therefore we are all fucked. Yup. And even if individual action did help, this thread shows it ain’t going to happen en masse – from “but my wet ears!” to “but my car!” via “who cares about future generations lol not me”, this thread alone is basically a microcosm of selfish society

Societal change only happens at the national/international level.

People need leadership, if politicians acted and led, then we would all fall into step.

Individuals cannot and will not make the changes required and unless there are alternatives, people living in rural areas cannot make the changes.
42% of our (uk) energy, right now, is from burning fossil fuels, this idea we are some sort of Green leading nation is bullshit.

The money wasted on HS2 could be used to open up 100s of branch lines... housing estates nr me were only granted permission if a new rail line was opened, the developer was allowed to go back on that promise, so 1000s more cars on congested roads... its madness.

It’s insane that flights are so cheap but the train is so expensive 🙄

Perhaps it’s really overpopulation that is the problem?