DH - “Shut your effing mouth”

[GoAwayScaryVampire]

How many and what pros do there need to be in a relationship for it to be worth putting up with anger management issue? Few weeks ago I was told to shut my effing mouth. That felt like a line was crossed. Other times things get thrown/kicked/smashed in the house. I say he has no “edit” button. He says exactly what he thinks, regardless of consequence. Therefore friendships always end sooner rather than later and we don’t have much of a social life. Also have small kids and one with SEN which puts more pressure on but was like this before as well. No physical violence towards anyone but the verbal can’t be intimidating. Would like to canvas opinion please. Thank you.

@pelosi

The problem is the time that he is not shouting/swearing is still tainted by the times he does.

It starts to affect your confidence and happiness, often insidiously.

He won't ever change, he only crossed the line in terms of how you perceive him, not in his own mind.

This is very much how I feel

There’s no pros that make this worth it
How easily can you leave?

Does he manage to control these rages around his children?
What is his response if one of them is naughty/has a tantrum/just gets on his nerves etc?

That beyond all else would be my biggest concern. Even if he holds it together right now, can you seriously imagine him not laying into your kids (verbally) once they get to the annoying teenager stage if he has not learnt to control his temper around grown adults?

HUGE red flag

Your children are being abused in the very place they are supposed to be safe.

I don’t recall him ever doing this in front of the children. Obviously it could change when they are teenagers, yes.

Nah, excellent fathers don't terrorise and traumatise their children so that they end up damaged for life.

It is not 'anger issues', it is abuse. Stop minimising.

Throwing/smashing/kicking things is physical violence. He is telling you and the children that if you don't fall in line that is what he will do to you.

Nobody is pure evil or pure light. Even murderers have good qualities. That doesn't make it ok.

Protect your children by leaving him.

And he loses it with your children? That for me would be a big red line. There is nothing that could make a relationship with him worthwhile.

He doesn’t lose it with the children. He only chucks stuff about in front of me.

@GoAwayScaryVampire

I don’t recall him ever doing this in front of the children. Obviously it could change when they are teenagers, yes.

So the children never hear any of this? Not the threats, not the intimidation, not the profanities, not the raised voices, not your fear, not things being thrown or smashed or kicked?

They don't notice the stuff that's broken or got fist-shaped holes in it?

They don't notice the constant stress, fear, and tension in the house?

They don't feel the effects of social isolation? Or their mum being scared and depressed?

None of this alters their brain development? None of this affects the development of their central nervous system from being flooded with adrenaline all the time?

Come off it.

Children are not stupid, they are like sponges and they are very perceptive of what is happening in the environment around them. It is necessary for your survival to be perceptive and alert to your surroundings when you are small and vulnerable.

You are living with domestic abuse, whether you realise it or not.

He sounds quite dreadful.

God help you and your children.

@GoAwayScaryVampire

He doesn’t lose it with the children. He only chucks stuff about in front of me.

He can control it then. He's choosing not to when he's with you.

It's abuse. I'm so sorry, OP.

@GoAwayScaryVampire

He’s big and powerful with a strong voice and I honestly think he would be scared of no one. He can also be an excellent father in many ways. He does all drop off and pick ups every day for all of the children (three different finish times). Makes breakfast, lunch and dinner for everyone all week. All clearing up as well. Does most of the domestic stuff. (Because my job is full on during week. I take over when i finish in the evenings). He just has a rage issue. It makes no difference how I react, weakly or strongly. This is just how he is and with everyone.

You would be absolutely dumbfounded at the things he has said to bosses, honestly. I can only assume he was that good at his job for them to have overlooked it.

He should be doing all if that anyway. He doesn't work and you do. He's not an excellent father. Think of how scared the kids must be at times.

What happens when he runs out of things to throw or hit or smash? Or when a child gets between whatever he’s throwing or smashing? You say he’s not done it in front of the kids but how do you know what he’s like when he’s alone with them? Alternately if he does control his anger around then, he can control it around you so either way it’s not good.

There are no “pros” that would be worth feeling intimidated or scared in my own home.

@GoAwayScaryVampire

He doesn’t lose it with the children. He only chucks stuff about in front of me.

Hmm. Natalie Hemming could have said that about her partner.

And then one night one of her young children came downstairs to find dad wrapping mum's body in a rug.

If he truly believes that this is the way he is and doesn't see a problem then you can't help him get help, and he needs help. You came here to gauge opinion on whether is he is being unreasonable, he very much is. Have a look at womensaid online when you get chance. His behaviour is totally unacceptable and you do not have to put up with it.

OP,

This sounds like a terrible way to bring up your children.

Imagine what he will be like when they're older, have partners, have families and extended families.

He will alienate everyone with his bullying, abusive 'personality' and cause no end of life long problems for your children because of there traumatic upbringing.

Please find the strength to get some help.

Is it behaviour you'd be happy with your daughter putting up with from a boyfriend?

Is it behaviour you'd be happy witnessing in your son?

The answers aren't just about how it affects your children (although undoubtedly it will), but also to get you to recalibrate your idea of what you should or shouldn't put up with in your life. You matter too.

Then I’d say he can control it when he chooses to. He just doesn’t want to.

FWIW my DP was like this - at work as well. Problem was there was never any consequences. One time he flipped his bosses desk up in a rage (but of course justified it) and another time called another boss a prick, he ended up getting a pay rise out of that conversation! Without any consequence he never learned to behave better and grow the fuck up. Until it all kicked off one day and I called the police. It was a turning point for him. We split up, he realised there were consequences and finally started to sort himself out. We got back together a few months later but I made it clear that I would not tolerate even a sniff of the same behaviour, whether that’s name calling, contempt, anything even resembling intimidation (standing in the doorway of a room etc). He still didn’t seem to realise just how awful he’d been, but he did admit that it was the thing that made him stop and take stock, get counselling, read some self help books etc. Without that effort to improve I would not have stayed with him. Nobody has to live like that

Do you really want to spend your life walking on eggshells in case he starts shouting? Fuck that shit, your home should be a place to relax.

This kind of anger is bound to come out in front of them as they get older when he deems it appropriate. Are you okay with them seeing him hit things, throw things, and swearing? He will think it's okay sooner than you think, it sounds like he's already pushing his own normal with you right now. Your children will grow up in a house where it is normal for dad to be aggressive to their mother. It sounds like he doesn't care how much it affects you. He doesn't care that you're the one on the other end. That's not very loving, is it?

This is not normal. You don't have to put up with it. You can live a life free from the anger.

He just has a rage issue.

I would never let someone with a rage issue be alone with any children. Especially one with SEN which may be more challenging.

He can either control it or he can’t. Which one is it?

Does he throw/kick/smash things when he's at work?

So the children never hear any of this? Not the threats, not the intimidation, not the profanities, not the raised voices, not your fear, not things being thrown or smashed or kicked?

They don't notice the stuff that's broken or got fist-shaped holes in it?

They don't notice the constant stress, fear, and tension in the house

They don't feel the effects of social isolation? Or their mum being scared and depressed?

None of this alters their brain development? None of this affects the development of their central nervous system from being flooded with adrenaline all the time?

Come off it.

Children are not stupid, they are like sponges and they are very perceptive of what is happening in the environment around them. It is necessary for your survival to be perceptive and alert to your surroundings when you are small and vulnerable.

I agree with every word of this. This is a terrible way for you to live and a terrible way for your children to live. My worry would be if you split, he may end up as the resident parent with you paying maintenance.

He doesn't work (outside the home).

@GoAwayScaryVampire

He doesn’t lose it with the children. He only chucks stuff about in front of me.

Then he can choose when to control himself. And he can CHOOSE when not to.

And you're kidding yourself if you think they're unaware of his behaviour and your putting up with it. I'm just going to repeat user16395699's excellent points:

"So the children never hear any of this? Not the threats, not the intimidation, not the profanities, not the raised voices, not your fear, not things being thrown or smashed or kicked?

They don't notice the stuff that's broken or got fist-shaped holes in it?

They don't notice the constant stress, fear, and tension in the house?

They don't feel the effects of social isolation? Or their mum being scared and depressed?

None of this alters their brain development? None of this affects the development of their central nervous system from being flooded with adrenaline all the time?

^Come off it."

Children are not stupid, they are like sponges and they are very perceptive of what is happening in the environment around them. It is necessary for your survival to be perceptive and alert to your surroundings when you are small and vulnerable."

This is no environment for children to be raised in, or for you to live in.