Nine years for starving a baby to death

[PropertyFlipper]

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

[quote Kanaloa]@Iggly

I’ve specifically said that’s what I would like to see happen rather than looking for how the mother might have suffered. All this could have been avoided by appropriate measures being taken when it was discovered the child had been left alone at all.[/quote]
Again, that’s too late. How is it that society ends up in a place where mothers end up this way and children end up this way?

It isn’t inevitable.

No it is not. Manslaughter carries a maximum penalty of Life imprisonment in English Law.

This is correct. Sentencing guidelines for manslaughter are not 2-10 years.

This individual will be released in 6 years time, spending the remaining 3 on licence. 9 years is not a harsh sentence for a child's life.

The only person I know who had their baby was from a nice, stable working class family but she had learning difficulties and very low intelligence. She started shagging around and her parents knew she would end up getting pregnant so essentially forced her to get the implant (which was controversial in itself at the time).

Everything was fine until she got into a steady relationship with an older man (she was 18 and he was in his 40s). He persuaded her to come off her contraception and they had a baby. The dad ended up leaving her for whatever reasons and she was just not responsible enough to take care of her own baby. She used to threaten to leave the baby alone if her mum didn’t agree to babysit whilst she went out clubbing (I suspect that she must have done this on at least one occasion and the grandmother realised and rescued the child). She used to bring random men back to the house and left the little girl in vulnerable circumstances (a friend found one of these men in the little girls bedroom one night and challenged him, the mother didn’t seem at all concerned and led the man back into her room). She used to sleep during the day and leave the child to fend for herself all day without the means of getting herself drink or food.

If it hadn’t have been for her family reporting her to social services, her story could easily have ended the same way as poor Asiyah’s. Fortunately, she is now living happily with her grandparents whilst her mother is happily ‘living her life’, shagging around and making more bad decisions. I am only surprised that the mother is still allowed contact with the child on a regular basis and so has the best of both worlds.

Again, that’s too late. How is it that society ends up in a place where mothers end up this way and children end up this way?

It isn’t inevitable.**

It wouldn’t be too late for Asiah. She would still be alive if these measures had been put in place when it was discovered she was being left alone.

I really am shocked by how little monitoring there was, when she was known to have left her daughter home alone 11 times before. She should at the very least have been back on a CPN.

When we had our DDs placed with us, we were monitored for 6 months in total until the final adoption order was approved by the court. We had weekly visits from our SW and the child’s SW, as well as visits from the HV and regular reviews.

Surely at least the same should be a requirement for a young care leaver and a vulnerable child?

It really shouldn’t have been possible for Asiah to be on her own for 6 days.

@Handsoffstrikesagain

Oh and while we’re on it, women need to be held accountable for the random men they move into their home on a whim who then go on to abuse their children. All women are not made from fairy dust and hot air. Plenty of women are selfish, nasty, abusive and manipulative. They don’t all require explanations, excuses or reasons why. Some are just useless shit Mother’s. They should be sterilised.

Again, how do you see this happening in practice? You're talking absolute nonsense. You're behaving like the very worst of politicians who stand up, full of promises and bluster, being all passionate and saying crowd-pleasing statements, all the while knowing that there is no way of delivering on their hair brained, badly thought through 'ideas'.

@Kanaloa

Again, that’s too late. How is it that society ends up in a place where mothers end up this way and children end up this way?

It isn’t inevitable.**

It wouldn’t be too late for Asiah. She would still be alive if these measures had been put in place when it was discovered she was being left alone.

I mean that I’d rather we didn’t need these measures in the first place.

[quote ufucoffee]@Ravenclawsome she was not convicted of murder. But she murdered her child. She knew she would die. [/quote]
Murder requires intent. That's why we have the manslaughter charge 🙄

Again, how do you see this happening in practice? You're talking absolute nonsense. You're behaving like the very worst of politicians who stand up, full of promises and bluster, being all passionate and saying crowd-pleasing statements, all the while knowing that there is no way of delivering on their hair brained, badly thought through 'ideas'

^this

All sounds a bit Priti Patel to me.

Most mothers are decent and most people are decent or have the capacity to be so. Give people the support and they will be fine.

That’s what lacking in society - the lack of support and we end up with dead and abused babies and children.

Do we know SS were aware that she had left the baby previously? I had assumed that came out after the poor baby's death.

What I don't understand is why she didn't leave her daughter with food and drink? Of course that wouldn't have made it ok to leave and she may have still died as she was unwell. But why leave the poor little thing with nothing to eat and drink?

Elephant that's also a good point re the bond.

Under, maybe she did but she was a baby and I'm sure wouldn't be able go adequately feed herself and she had flu.

Iggly I'm afraid I've seen the parenting bar set very low.

Naaah this is a chat forum? Where people chat, it's not your PhD course on child abuse.
Unfortunately what we say here means nothing.

• or fortunately which ever way you look at it

I keep thinking about whether she was stuck in a cot or try roaming the flat. The poor baby was literally imprisoned.

This woman was an abuser, the abuse was neglect and the abuse was repeated and sustained. She KNEW her baby wouldn’t survive 6 days alone and during all that time she partied and looked after her own selfish needs. She got home and WAITED 2 hours before calling the emergency services busy going on social media and covering her arse. Those tears on sentencing were entirely for herself and the very few years that she will be deprived of freedom, not the lifetime that she deprived her daughter of. Am I really supposed to get upset if someone calls her a “Bitch” when people get called worse on here for fairly trivial matters?

If it where up to me, 18 years mandatory sentence for child killers. 18 years is a childhood lifespan, it doesn’t even cover the loss of a future, an adulthood, the chance to live and travel, fulfill your own dreams, become a parent or grandparent yourself. In 6 years this person will be free, to have another child or work her way into another family as a step parent.

Maybe she didn’t leave food as she wasn’t expecting to be away so long. Maybe she left food and the baby didn’t like it/eat it for whatever reason or couldn’t access it, for example was too tired to walk from room to room searching for it. I know at 20 months when mine were ill (especially with chest infections and colds) I always upped their milk and drinks because they would be off their food. I remember dd a bit older than this having a bad cold and she lived off custard, yogurt, strawberry milk and smoothies as her throat was sore so she didn’t want to eat stuff she had to chew and swallow.

She was in no hurry to get back, she stopped at the shops. I think sadly she knew what would happen but thought she'd get away with it. Horrendous as that is. Poor baby.

It was also early December and must have been cold , on top of everything else she went through during those six long days on her own.
It is just awful to do that to anyone, let alone an innocent child who was unable to even get a drink of water and wouldn't have the capacity to care for herself on any level at all.
Her mother will get a second chance , fed and watered in prison. Things she denied her own daughter. She didn't even ring anyone for two hours once she did come home , she tried to cover her tracks. What was she thinking ??
Just Appalling and so so sad.

@UndertheCedartree

Do we know SS were aware that she had left the baby previously? I had assumed that came out after the poor baby's death.

What I don't understand is why she didn't leave her daughter with food and drink? Of course that wouldn't have made it ok to leave and she may have still died as she was unwell. But why leave the poor little thing with nothing to eat and drink?

The child was less than two even if she had left snacks and drinks around would the child have known to eat them?

Most dc that age couldn't feed themselves or even think about to space out the victuals to last for however long she's been left for
On top of that the poor thing had flu, a horrid nasty virus.

I'm don't think whether she left food or not really matters when a sick child was too young anyway to use it or in a way to keep herself going.
It's beyond her age abilities.

18 years seems like a good minimum sentence based on a childhood lost and stolen.

I still don't understand why we don't have harsher penalties for cruelty against dc.

Some knee mentioned on this or another thread a book written the poster said by people in Rochdale called, dangerous families.. And it focused on the adults and the barm coming to dc. But the swing back was to give the adults a chance meaning their rights trump themselves children.

Rather like the Rotherham men fighting for their human rights and remaining in the community where they stole and ruined so many lives, fighting extradition to Pakistan.

The rights of the abused girls should come first.

Very true i remember when my now fourteen year old had a nasty chest infection when he was four desperately trying to get him to drink so he wouldnt dehydrate, and trying to tempt him to eat little bitsof ice cream, yoghurt etc.

I think sadly she knew what would happen

Or rather hoped would happen

What I don't understand is why she didn't leave her daughter with food and drink? Of course that wouldn't have made it ok to leave and she may have still died as she was unwell. But why leave the poor little thing with nothing to eat and drink?

I'm not sure this makes a difference. She was less than 2 . Most parents wouldnt leave a child that age to eat or drink unattended, (even if they were in the house) for risk of choking, as much as anything else. And what food would be ok for a 20 month to access and "prepare"? They cant open packets or yoghurts, or open the top of a drink to get it...etc.