Nine years for starving a baby to death

[PropertyFlipper]

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

Some numbers .

England
• 57,380 children were living with foster families on 31 March 2020.
• This is 72 per cent of the 80,080 children in care looked after away from home.
• There are around 44,500 foster families in England.
• Every year thousands of new foster families are needed in England.

•	There were 389,260 children in need at 31 March 2020, 
•	This was a rate of 323.7 per 10,000 children
•	There were 51,510 children in need on child protection plans
•	This was a rate of 42.8 per 10,000 children
•	There were 642,980 referrals during the year
•	Domestic violence by the parent was identified as a factor at the end of assessment in 169,860 episodes of need and remains the most common factor.

The law is fit for purpose.

Like hell it is. If the law is fit for purpose, then why are so many children left to suffer in abusive homes and end up severely neglected or dead? It needs to be far easier to remove these children from their evil parents permanently before it’s too late. If the law was fit for purpose, then Baby P should not have been removed from his mother in October and given back to her in January, to give just one example.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

The law needs to change.

To what? Do you want to give the state powers to permanently remove your children without evidence that you have caused them any harm? Really?

Plenty of evidence if we had a proper service here with time and resources to obtain and review it properly.

To what? Do you want to give the state powers to permanently remove your children without evidence that you have caused them any harm? Really

@CloseYourEyesAndSee Baby P was found bruised and injured at seven months old. His mother was arrested and he was taken away to be cared for by someone else. Three months later he was handed back to her; about seven months after that, he was dead. What more evidence do you want?!

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

But to claim the law has landed in the right place when leaving a child in such a clearly vulnerable position and just crossing your fingers they stay alive is deemed acceptable is insane.

The level of speculation about what social services did and didn't know before she died is getting ridiculous. I'm tired now and bowing out. Goodnight.

My point made no reference to what they did know. I'm talking about what would have been obvious to them were they resourced to do their job properly.

Not much use to Asiah investigating it after she's dead.

Yes, we should definitely be ignoring all the evidence showing that care leads to even poorer outcomes, and removing children from their homes en masse because of a few cases where the outcome was the death of a child.

A liberal society has to constantly balance individual needs vs state intervention. The Presumption is of being a good parent until proven otherwise .Removal of a child is undertaken by a judge,not SW. understandably when a child or baby dies there is a outcry and a reflective how did this happen,which can lead to a demands for more state intervention, low threshold for removal of baby or child. Yet there is also a dichotomy of SW have too much power and they must be curtailed.There are multiple Dark conspiracy theories of baby stealing SW encouraged by the state online and on forums

Everyone is a sofa social worker,confident and strident online in a wholly speculative I’d do this, I’d do that way

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

The law needs to change.

To what? Do you want to give the state powers to permanently remove your children without evidence that you have caused them any harm? Really?

Also: yes. I want children at risk of serious harm to be removed, rather than waiting until it's already happened. Evidence that harm has already taken place means the intervention is too late. It's no wonder so many children in the care system are unreachable with help offered, as a social worker said upthread. By then they are so damaged, it's much too late.

@EspressoDoubleShot

A liberal society has to constantly balance individual needs vs state intervention. The Presumption is of being a good parent until proven otherwise .Removal of a child is undertaken by a judge,not SW. understandably when a child or baby dies there is a outcry and a reflective how did this happen,which can lead to a demands for more state intervention, low threshold for removal of baby or child. Yet there is also a dichotomy of SW have too much power and they must be curtailed.There are multiple Dark conspiracy theories of baby stealing SW encouraged by the state online and on forums

Everyone is a sofa social worker,confident and strident online in a wholly speculative I’d do this, I’d do that way

I don't think public policy should be based on conspiracy theories etc. There is clear evidence that the current system fails a large proportion of both children taken into care and those left with their disfunctional families. It - and the law underpinning it, and the funding to support it - is desperately in need of reform.

The poster who said it has "landed in the right place" is delusional.

It's hard to comprehend if you have had normal upbringing. I went on course with loads of teen mums who hadn't had great home lives. They really struggled with concept of regular feeding, bedtimes or routine. Or why little one has to go to nursery each day, not just stay home because your lonely. Same with doctors and dentist appointments. Social worker would arrange them and they just wouldn't take the child. I wouldnt have believed it until I sat in the group. I still struggle to.understand how lors of them didnt get it.

I didn’t say policy was based on conspiracy theory, I am illustrating the multiple unfounded criticisms and misunderstanding of child protection
Inc it’s a state conspiracy to remove children or it’s target driven

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Yes, we should definitely be ignoring all the evidence showing that care leads to even poorer outcomes, and removing children from their homes en masse because of a few cases where the outcome was the death of a child.

It only leads to poorer outcomes because it is such a pathetic and poorly resourced service in the UK. There are countries where that is not the case. It is a choice that we make as a society not to put in place a decent care system for vulnerable children which is very clearly better for them than living with an abusive family.

@EspressoDoubleShot

I didn’t say policy was based on conspiracy theory, I am illustrating the multiple unfounded criticisms and misunderstanding of child protection Inc it’s a state conspiracy to remove children or it’s target driven

Right. But as you say these are complete nonsense so should be irrelevant to policy making. It needs to be based on evidence, not what some nutters in a conspiracy theory group are saying. I don't know why you even mentioned that.

It is a choice that we make as a society not to put in place a decent care system for vulnerable children which is very clearly better for them than living with an abusive family.

This is certainly true, and something we should be ashamed of.

Was this tragedy preventable, yes. Children's Services are hugely understaffed and underfunded. Both mother and child were failed.

Here’s the thing people want the LA to provide
Adult and child social care
Environment health
Housing
Environmental maintenance
And so much more…but vociferously complain when asked to pay via community charge

@Seasidemumma77

Was this tragedy preventable, yes. Children's Services are hugely understaffed and underfunded. Both mother and child were failed.

The child was failed I feel zero failure for the mother No matter how deprived or poor your upbringing, you do not leave a child for 4:5 days

Reading between the lines of the judge's comments, it appears the mother is of limited intelligence and competence. She did not understand that leaving her child for days would kill her. Now, to you and I that seems unbelievable but when you have worked with the vulnerable and in the courts, it is par for the course.

There are so, so many vulnerable people existing on the fringes of society, they have no quality of upbringing, no real life support and simply lurch between crises of near misses. And that is the travesty. We all need to hear about these people's lives and neglect I order to fight for positive change. Theirs are the voices that are making from every conversation about crime, neglect, abuse and poverty.

And what about about the children that are abused in the care system.

*missing not making

On a human and empathic level I feel the mum is inadequate and has suffered too, reportedly groomed, in dysfunctional relationships, care leaver. None of that negates what she has actually done,which is reprehensible. However a humane approach is to try understand who is the mum

Reading between the lines of the judge's comments, it appears the mother is of limited intelligence and competence. She did not understand that leaving her child for days would kill her.

If that is the conclusion of the authorities then how was she discharged from SS caseload into very light-touch supported accommodation with sole responsibility for a baby?

@EspressoDoubleShot

On a human and empathic level I feel the mum is inadequate and has suffered too, reportedly groomed, in dysfunctional relationships, care leaver. None of that negates what she has actually done,which is reprehensible. However a humane approach is to try understand who is the mum

No. Abusers and child killers are inhumane and they do not deserve that whatsoever. Lots of people suffer a lot and do not do this. She clearly has mental capacity and no serious mental health issues otherwise she would not have stood trial, or would have been sent to mental health care rather than prison.

Please stop making excuses for her.

[quote MichelleScarn]@ExpressDelivery ExpressDelivery

l can't find it in me to feel anything but sympathy for this mother. There but for the grace...

*December 5, 2019: Kudi leaves Asiah alone in the Brighton flat to head to London. She meets her boyfriend for dinner in Fulham and tells pals her mum is looking after the baby.

December 6: She eats at Donut Shack with friends in Putney, South West London
December 7: Kudi attends a Juiced 90s concert in Elephant and Castle with a pal
December 9: The mum travels to Coventry with her boyfriend and others to help celebrate a friend’s birthday.
December 10: Kudi heads back to London and stays overnight at a friend's flat.
December 11: She catches a train back to Brighton and pops into M&S before heading back to Asiah at the flat.*
So you'd have done all this partying and socialis knowing your baby was alone with no food or water, and slowly dying?[/quote]
This. How can anyone feel sympathy after reading this. The pain and torture that baby went through must have been unimaginable, while the mother was enjoying all these activities. She obviously had a busy life..plenty of friends, money a boyfriend. All those excusing her think She couldn’t understand it wasn’t ok to starve your child to death?

@PolkadotClouds 100% agree