Cruelty to children

[designSalmon]

I’ve just read the absolutely tragic story of Kaylee-Jayde Priest. I’ve just been crying my eyes out this evening over the loss of her very short life. She has hair just like my daughter,

I’d really like some recommendations on charities and organisations that try to make a real difference in cases such as these, so that I may make a donation etc.

Rest in peace little girl, I hope you will find the kindness, love and compassion you so deserve in heaven.

Thank you

[quote Maddison12]@Lockheart
Don't be daft. The state taking away someone's liberty and imprisoning them is a very serious thing and it is right that it is always, ALWAYS, rigourously tested.

I couldn't agree more with this but you don't seem to have much empathy at all. 9 years is not a great sentence for someone who went out partying for 6 days whilst their one year old daughter's home alone frightened and starving to death. This vile individual will be out in 4 or 5 years, do you honestly^ think that's a 'great' outcome?[/quote]
Could you quote where I said it was a great outcome, please?

@LizzieW1969

*I’m still struggling to understand how this doesn't constitute murder.*

^Yep, I really don’t understand why they weren’t convicted of murder.

Who killed her? Who landed the fatal blow?

Those are the questions that the prosecution would have to answer. With no evidence of who did what, just that the little girl was fatally harmed, and the defendants blaming each other it would've been nearly impossible to prove murder for one of them ,much less both. This way both defendants got found guilty and sentenced.

^Yep, I really don’t understand why they weren’t convicted of murder.

I think it is because they both deny killing her and blamed each other, and as there isn’t any direct evidence which pinpoints who actually killed her, there is the possibility they could both be acquitted due to lack of evidence.

Whereas manslaughter implies there wasn’t an intent to kill but that they still did kill her between them, so they are both culpable. It doesn’t matter who landed the killer blow, they both abused her or allowed the other to kill her.

Kaylee's mum is literally in her own fake world, she's stomping around like she's in a sexy music video or something. its horrifying. No wonder she could compartmentalise her life and abuse her daughter. She's mad.

If she’s mad then can she really be held responsible for her actions?

If the people that commit these acts are simply going to be branded “monsters” and banged up for life, we doom more and more children to the same fate.

@sashh

I think Baby P's grandmother was in Poland (unless I am thinking of another child).

I think you mean Daniel Pelka. After his death there was a move to make it a legal requirement to report suspected abuse, it was rejected by government.

Not to derail the thread but Mairead Philpott is now out of prison.

To think that Mick Philpott only served three years and two months for attemped murder and GBH with intent. Perhaps if the sentencing for that had been stiffer, there wouldn't have been six young murder victims.

Philpot's string of underage "mistresses" should have raised alarm bells. Even the most liberal-minded Mumsnetter would baulk at the 29 year age gap with the last of these - generally they all had childhoods which would have made them vulnerable to manipulation. This is why I believe that age of consent laws should be reformed to take account of age gaps. It's madness that a 45 year old can legally have sex with a 16 year old, yet a pair of 15 year olds would be criminalised.

Could you quote where I said it was a great outcome, please?

No I can't quote it as you didn't say it was a great outcome. What you said was 9 years was a great sentence which I'm still struggling to understand so was asking if you thought the person being released in 4 or 5 years was 'great'.

The cycle of abuse in all of these families is horrific.
I read that guardian article about baby P. It’s just abuse on abuse on abuse - loaded with extremely low IQs and some more abuse on top.

I can’t see that there is any way to stop this. Perhaps no one can leave school at 16? I seem to have noticed that a lot of girls leave school end up with much older men, have kids, if they were made to continue education? Would that make a difference.

Clutching at straws here a bit!

@Maddison12

Could you quote where I said it was a great outcome, please?

No I can't quote it as you didn't say it was a great outcome. What you said was 9 years was a great sentence which I'm still struggling to understand so was asking if you thought the person being released in 4 or 5 years was 'great'.

Ok, could you please quote where I said "9 years is a great sentence"?

I take the point of they can't prove who did it hence manslaughter. But conversely you could say they are both bloody guilty. They were both there. Neither chose to stop it regardless who delivered the fatal blow. The evidence presented by West Midlands police shows they were both in the property. And I don't need a longwinded legal explanation as to why this isn't possible, it should be and it's sickening.

@jakeyboy1
I mean you’ve basically just written the terminology for manslaughter right there

@Lockheart it was actually 'excellent sentence'. Just trawled through 12 pages as I was utterly convinced it was you who posted it, it wasn't, I do apologise.

We don’t do burning or hanging anymore. So if you can’t prove who killed someone then it’s pretty obvious that at best you’ll get manslaughter
Not a lot can be done about that. She won’t ever be allowed to keep a child again. I would imagine

I didn't know about this poor child.
Her bedroom had no light bulbs or carpet, didn't granny notice something?

Poor children 🙏.
Parenting is relentless and hard.
We as a society need to be getting messages out earlier about becoming a mother and a father, birth control etc.
Sadly there will always be this amongst us.

@Maddison12

Could you quote where I said it was a great outcome, please?

No I can't quote it as you didn't say it was a great outcome. What you said was 9 years was a great sentence which I'm still struggling to understand so was asking if you thought the person being released in 4 or 5 years was 'great'.

It was never said . The word adequate was used. Found the exchange here.

• Because law has to be passed properly through parliament and shouldn't be brought about by knee jerk emotional reactions.

@Lockheart do you think 9-10 years is an adequate sentence for killing a child?
It depends on the circumstances. It can be, certainly. But it isn't always.*

And it was in reply to why doesn't Boris increase sentencing guidelines. Perfectly reasonable responses really.

68 injuries to that terrosized baby.
Can this lady be sterilised??

I can't understand why when it comes to to harming or killing the most vulnerable in our society, we can't have much harsher rules and sentences?
I'm don't feel we value children much at all..

Our rather than those on care, or born into misery like a this etc

@jakeyboy1

I take the point of they can't prove who did it hence manslaughter. But conversely you could say they are both bloody guilty. They were both there. Neither chose to stop it regardless who delivered the fatal blow. The evidence presented by West Midlands police shows they were both in the property. And I don't need a longwinded legal explanation as to why this isn't possible, it should be and it's sickening.

You can say anything you want. You still need to prove it, give evidence and make sure there is no doubt so the jury will convict.

The evidence that they had and you reiterated meant they could both be charged,convicted and sentenced. Even if it was "just" manslaughter.

At least there was that option, a few years ago before the guidelines have changed they could've both walked scot free as ordered by a judge. Not even a full trial and jury.

It's just awful. 3 in one headline list on the BBC's website 😔

[quote Awwlookatmybabyspider]@DanteThunderstone. Excellent sentence.
However and I could be very very wrong here and I feel heartily sorry for them but I’m sure a certain middle class professional white couple and their friends would have got exactly the same sentence had they been working class and black.[/quote]
@ObviousNameChage
Why are you getting involved? 'It was never said' it was quite clearly said here. I mistakenly thought it was lockheart, who I've already apologised to. I'm sure they don't need you jumping to their defence.

Her Nan did notice though. She reported them to social services, but mum told the social worker she was planning to redecorate it soon.

Having sparse walls and all that, it's a sign of poverty not necessarily abuse. Obviously in this case it was abuse, but not everyone can afford wallpaper and new carpet and curtains and whatever

I don't think this is on the social workers or on the Nan, this is squarely the responsibility of the mum and boyfriend. They abused and killed that poor little girl, and the people who knew her will have to live with her loss and their own feelings around that forever. Heartbreaking.

The boy in Wales as well? WTF is wrong with people.

@workwoes123

I think its really interesting the bridge between genuinely mentally ill and just horribly fucked up. Obviously Kaylee's mum didn't register as psychotic or mentally ill enough to be considered unaccountable. I would venture though that she's 'not all there'. And thats truly not the same as being psychotic and therefore she is culpable. I said she's mad, but I don't think for a minute she was unable to differentiate between right and wrong. She was on drugs, she was emotional but she's still culpable/ responsible.

I shouldn't talk about this really.. but a relative is in a relationship with a woman that has been in jail a few times. This is totally crazy for our boring/ put on a good show/ emotionally dead family I heard second hand that she was in the same unit as baby P's mum in jail and she said she was really nice.

People like this have no judgement. Its like being crazy but its not. They've grown up in families that excuse all sorts of madness and they have no insight.

Why the fuck my relative decided it was cool to bring this sort of shit into our family, I will never know. And I will never be okay with it.

They’ve grown up in families that excuse all sorts of madness and they have no insight.

So if this behaviour is totally «normal» for them because they’ve been taught that, and they have no insight into their behaviour or the consequences of it for others, how can they be held responsible?

I’m playing devils advocate here to an extent. But I do think that labelling them as some kind of aberrant monsters, which spontaneously emerged from nowhere, lets all of us off the hook. Somewhere in both of their pasts will be the reasons why they did this and if we don’t understand these, it will happen over and over (as it already does).

I would venture though that she's 'not all there'.

There’s no doubt that some murderers are not “all there”. But others do have their full faculties about them and are quite simply evil and twisted individuals. I sometimes think people say they were mad or not “all there” because they can’t or don’t want to accept that some people are just plain evil. I can kind of see why, because the latter is a profoundly depressing and scary thing to acknowledge.

@workwoes123
@bluewanda

Yeah, some people just suck. Sometimes they are poor and rob people and attack children. Sometimes they are rich and rob people and attack children. And some people just fuck things up within the law, just within the law, but still are horrible. Honestly, I never thought I'd get so cynical. But, early intervention with families works. Please, more surestart, more health visitors, more help for families that are clueless. Always report things that sound bad. If its fine then no harm done, if its not then you've averted a disaster.