To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

The McCann's weren't intoxicated

Really?

the tapas 12.....not the chippy 7

@Macncheeseballs

I'm not sure that the mcanns would agree that they have merely been mildly criticised

Absolutely. The hatred directed at them, parents going through the worst thing possibly imaginable, changed me forever. It really changed me from having a largely positive view of humanity to being deeply distrustful of humanity. That so many people could direct so much hatred and cruelty to parents living through absolutely hell. I had no idea that so many people were so, so, so awful.

So no, the McCann's certainly did not get an easy ride.

A few years ago I got to the point of calling 999 when my boys went missing from my garden. I don't have words to describe how I felt at that time. I have no idea how anyone lives with that if their child is not found.

"The thing is MM went missing in a foreign holiday resort, had she gone missing in a british resort regardless of wether it was Butlins (which isnt that cheap btw) or some upmarket resort it would have been investigated by british police not Portuguese who knows wether it would then have been passed on to social services to investigate 🤷‍♀️"

Portuguese Police could have prosecuted them for neglect if they'd wanted to.

"hat said prior to the whole shannon matthews facade, look at the difference in reporting between the middle class Mccans, and Shannon from the Dewsbury housing estate with her single mother and one of seven siblings with several different fathers."

Well, yes, that was Owen Jones's point, but the journalists turned out to be absolutely right about Shannon's mother.

@MadinMarch

Yes @FreeBritnee* *@chopc trendy hipster area where people have money

Brighton?

that was my first thought...

Not all of these things are neglect though, context is important, I know people who have paid for a taxi to get their teenager to school as it is that or they miss the school start time, it's important they get to school on time. I know quite a few people who use tutors because they have tried to help their children but not been any good at it. On the other hand, I know that it is also dismissed by some in the circles I know of as 'try hard' and not letting the primary aged child be a free spirit in their evenings after school.

PP if she drinks and drives ring 999- what the hell is wrong with you? She could kill anyone!

@rantymcrantface66

Another point is the way often some will respond to professionals. In my job we have lots of families who come from a cycle of poverty. Many are suspicious or fearful of professionals. They can act defensively even when we are trying to help as it is a belief they have been brought up with. As TA I sometimes have a better relationship with a parent than the teacher or SLT. If a social worker came knocking on the door they likely wouldn't be pleasant, possibly wouldn't know the right things to say if they've come from a chaotic upbringing themselves and be hostile. A MC parent who deals with professionals all the time would easily be able to talk the talk, ' how ridiculous, whoever said that haha, excuse the mess hubby has been working away and I've had the flu. It's been an awful week'

I think this is the crux of it, almost more than the money issue.

It's as much the background you come from - the education you've had, the job you do, the confidence you have, the way you speak.

I am by no means posh but I've had a university education, work in a job where I'm used to interacting with both parents and education professionals (teachers, psychologists, speech and language therapists etc) on a daily basis, and can speak to people in a friendly, confident manner. As a result I automatically talk to any professional person involved with my DC (teacher, doctor, sports coach etc etc) as if I am their equal, simply because my background enables me to do so, and they then respond to me as someone to be respected, because of the way I talk to them.

If you don't have that kind of background, if you have low self esteem and poor levels of education, if you feel you're going to be judged for the way you speak and the way you look and you don't know what to say and you are automatically fearful / distrustful of professionals, because you find them scary/intimidating/threatening, you cannot interact with people with that easy confidence, and that inevitably impacts the way they deal with you.

There is definitely a disparity between the way people from different backgrounds are treated, and I don't know what the answer is, but I think it's a lot more complicated than just how much money someone has.

I don't know anyone rich or poor who thinks drink driving is ok

[quote Lndnmummy]@randomwomen It’s heartbreaking. But the truth is had they not left their children, 3 minor children, she would not have been taken. It’s on them. It is also the case that the investigation that followed by SS was very light touch. Mrs McCann wrote about it in her book how SS apologised for having to ask them questions, when they had neglected their children by leaving three vulernable babies asleep. It’s neglect. And they got the light touch treatment because they are white middle class doctors. Imagine if the parents had been black and left their children to drink rum with their neighbours. Do you think SS would have taken a similarity light touch approach.

I have a friend who often drives after drinking wine. She is rich, very prim and proper. She just assumes it’s not an issue. My black friends and family would never dream of doing it.[/quote]
Im not sure its purely a race issue either, i live in social housing, we are a white family people do make assumptions because of where we live, the housing association themselves assume we are not very educated (i now am a carer for my severely disabled child but i used to be a registered nurse) i dont doubt there is some racism im just saying its more than that.

This thread is awful

Social media - yes absolutely the McCanns were crucified. The media, when they were meeting the Pope etc? No. They are very litigious, because they have the money to be so. I have no personal ax to grind with them, they’re a very sobering example of making poor decisions and having to live with the absolutely awful consequences, as individuals.

Working class Kyle and Kelly would not have been meeting the Pope in similar circumstances.

For whether social services should intervene when parenting is broadly left to a nanny: what intervention should they take? Move the children to the care system where they will also be looked after by a professional and feel even more severed from their parents? Taking children into care is in itself damaging, so if parents are arranging for basic needs to be met, care would probably be worse.

Obviously in cases of abuse rather than emotional neglect that would be considered, but it was mentioned upthread that the middle classes often send their children to grandparents or boarding school when they can’t cope. That has better outcomes than the care system, although worse than having actual loving supportive parents. But social services can’t readily provide that.

Last year we had to move out of our social housing house for a couple of weeks into another house for some essential work, whilst the housing officer who arranged it was very pleasent, she found it necessary to write me an itinerary of what was going to happen, and who to contact ie gas and electric supplies, there was definitely an assumption that we couldnt possibly have figured it all out for ourselves.

I'm in the age bracket and income bracket and location the OP is talking about, and I don't recognise this at all. My friends are all pretty similar to me - mostly like a drink, but would never have left the children unattended when they were younger. They also wouldn't have been too pissed to look after them. None of us does drugs. I wouldn't be friends with people who did that sort of thing.

OP I agree with you. Middle class parents often also know how to “play the game/system” better. Less likely to get defensive when asked questions about situations and know the answers to give. The bags under the eyes aren’t from being up drinking - they were because they were up working/sitting by child’s bedside. Any likelihood of trouble they can afford expensive lawyers.

Of course, it has always been this way because we are a society that looks at appearances first.

@catfunk

Maybe middle class isn't the right term, I don't even know how to define it really hence using speech marks.

I'm talking about people who are generally uni educated, average or higher earners, home owners etc

I have to say, this statement alone at least resonates with me. I don't necessarily agree with the full original post but it resonates with me at least somewhat both because I've seen liberal lefty parents partying and taking cocaine in a field when kids were safe in other people's hands (so probably doesn't even count in this instance because they were absolutely not left alone, but with the other parent that the other was separated from etc. I am a child of the 90s and a parent of mine was sexually abusive as well as hyper critical and physically abusive. It has come to my attention that talking to a former teacher of mine recently that the school was aware that my mum was abusive (didn't know about the sexual stuff but highly suspected it apparently when I told all ) but the teacher said that they had very little concrete evidence and with that in mind, at least in those days (15-20 years ago) they couldn't do anything. My parent was highly educated and earned a high wage and worked as a public servant. I was asked once or twice by school staff 'if everything was OK at home' I said yes because I was deeply afraid of repercussions. Don't know if it held any weight but we were dressed immaculately, think Princess Charlotte and Prince George alot (but not all of the time) and out manners were impeccable because it was enforced. The parent could switch demeanors and turn sickly sweet to avoid anyone thinking badly of them BUT there were definitely people who saw their strange behaviour when a guard was let down. Appearances mattered and it was said many a time by them. Think 'keeping up appearances' and it wouldn't be too much of an exaggeration. Not everyone's story by any means at all, but might be relevant to someone else.

@MNHQ why is my post deleted? Why on earth is it deleated? The Mccanns left their babies unattended as as a result one of their children were abducted. You are deleting this post but letting bias and racist posts remain unchallenged with mediocre warnings about “not hurting anyone’s feeling”... can you please email me and let me know why my posts are deleted.

Evening all. Whilst we understand that folk want to discuss this subject, when it comes to particular cases, it's our policy to delete any posts that are pure speculation or just not in the spirit of the site. We've already deleted a fair few posts of this nature.

We'd like to remind everyone of our Talk Guidelines, and also that we're here as a place of support, to make parents' lives easier. We'd really appreciate it if everyone could bear this in mind when posting.

If anyone spots any posts that they think we should take a look at, please report them to us. If we have to delete too many posts, we're likely to decide to remove the whole thread.

Thank you.

Sorry I didn't mean for this thread to be about social services - I don't know much about that side of things tbh.

I was more musing that I see some quite outrageous and arguably irresponsible behaviour which seems to be completely accepted and normal in this circle, even something to be proud about.