To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

There are good parents and bad parents. Not sure class comes into it.

It might look like they're "getting away with murder" but probably they aren't in the sense that I'm sure it'll have long-term impact on and life-long consequences for their kids.

Are there are a lot of closet alcoholics across the country, in all classes? Yes there are.

I'd class myself as middle class and live in central London but recognise none of the behaviour you describe - for me or any of my friends who live locally to me or afar, who've moved out.

I'm sure what you describe is true - but I find it hard to imagine from any of the parents I know this sort of hedonism and self-abuse. They care about their bodies and their kids. A lot.

‘Yes, lots of dope, alcohol and loud parties. Many of the children partake too with parents consent. SS would have a field day if on social housing estate. Different rules for some. One 17 year old of a family I know overdosed accidentally on E - the posts of wonderful boy, an accident etc but the parents allowed use and used party drugs themselves - so basically aided in the death of their own son. If a family known to SS the other children would be removed but these people are professionals.’

I have seen MULTIPLE scenarios like this (with worse outcomes) in deprived areas and I can assure you the children haven’t been removed. What actually happens is partner agencies are brought in and parents given a support worker/ sent on a parenting programme.
Often in situations like this there are years of trauma/ poor mental health/ poor parenting capacity/ poor attachment and the 17 year old taking drugs is up to all kinds of other stuff.
As I have said- it takes a multitude of things to happen before kids are removed and after other interventions have failed.

Well I don’t know. But nothing ever changed for her. Nothing ever improved.

Many social workers who feel at ease challenging and investigating working class parents suspected of neglect or abuse find themselves anxious and unsure/wrongfooted when they’re tasked with the same job but with parents who are well spoken, highly educated and know their rights.

I really don't find this resonating with my experience.
Plenty of SW's are highly educated, attended Russell group universities I certainly wasn't the only one.
All my colleagues regardless of their education understood the rights of the families they work with.
Working with lawyers, barristers is a weekly experience pretty much in child protection.
When I got my first complaint a colleague told me if you aren't getting any complaints then you probably aren't doing your job properly.

On reflection with more years as a therapist I'm not sure that is actually true. But you will get complaints. ( usually on the last cases you would expect)

Doesn't mean there aren't bad or incompetent social workers, of course there are but social workers aren't stressed by the middle classes.

@Bryonyshcmyony

A particular court case "Tim Haines, 53, was prosecuted for leaving his sick two-year-old daughter, Iset, alone in a car for five minutes while he ran into a chemist to buy some Calpol.
He said his daughter was “barely out of sight” but he returned to find police waiting at his car.
Two weeks later, officers arrived at his Worcestershire home to arrest him for "exposing a child to risk of harm".
“I was taken through the magistrates’ court where initially I was convicted,” he told the BBC."

This bloke didn't leave his child night after night to drink at a bar.

[quote TheTallOakTrees]@Bryonyshcmyony

Oh yes. If a child was abducted whilst single mum not watching her and left in an unlock apartment with other young children whilst mum was drinking in a bar they would question the mum's ability to keep children safe![/quote]
I agree.

They couldn't get a straight story from ANY of them either.

Wherever they come from, they were an absolute disgrace and failed ALL their children utterly.

All for the price of a babysitter🙄

[quote TheTallOakTrees]@Bryonyshcmyony

Oh yes. If a child was abducted whilst single mum not watching her and left in an unlock apartment with other young children whilst mum was drinking in a bar they would question the mum's ability to keep children safe![/quote]
A more realistic comparison would be a family at Butlins leaving their kids to go for a drink in the bar. If one child was abducted, you are saying they'd take the other children into care? Of course they wouldn't.

A lot of middle class people behave badly, as do a lot of lower class parents. I guess though middle class parents are able to compensate their DCs for their bad behaviour by throwing gifts and treats at them, whilst the poorer ones can’t, hence the difference in how the children react. It’s only when dcs are adults that they look back and see through the gifts and money.

Middle class families 'get away' with it because there is nothing to draw social services attention to them. The kids live in nice houses, are well fed and clothed, attend school regularly, do extra curricular activities, hand in their homework on time. The parents work, pay their bills, have decent cars, take the family on holiday and are well presented in public. So who would know if there was abuse going on at home? Or if one or both parents had a drink or drug problem? Or serious mental health issues? All of these things can be and are hidden from society. I think alcohol addiction, mental health issues and even drug addiction (e.g. cocaine) are rife in middle class families, and those things should warrant social services attention and support. But these families are not even on their radar because they tick all the other boxes.

People think social services involvement means failure but it can actually mean the opposite; families getting the help and support they need far quicker than they ever would by keeping up appearances while their poor kids are suffering.

How about this case:

"Extreme examples of children being left alone include a drunk mum who left her two young kids home alone to go out and buy more booze.
The 34-year-old from Huddersfield, who cannot be named to protect the identities of her children, was found intoxicated in an alleyway by cops."

The children were taken into care. The McCann's weren't intoxicated (probably) but their very young child was possibly abducted (or walked off to look for them etc etc) who actually knows. The story about checking the children kept changing.

@Crowsaregreat

Well, it makes sense if you think the police are primarily there to protect property. The more you have, the less they bother you. The less you have, the more of a threat you are to those with property and so the heavier they come down on you.

The Police are there to preserve life and protect property. This includes safeguarding work with families from all backgrounds. It's absolute nonsense to think that they back off if you're loaded. I think it's just easier to hide from statutory agencies when you have money because you have more safety nets to fall back on and therefore the children from these wealthier families don't necessarily stand out as much in terms of obvious neglect.

@TheTallOakTrees

How about this case:

"Extreme examples of children being left alone include a drunk mum who left her two young kids home alone to go out and buy more booze.
The 34-year-old from Huddersfield, who cannot be named to protect the identities of her children, was found intoxicated in an alleyway by cops."

The children were taken into care. The McCann's weren't intoxicated (probably) but their very young child was possibly abducted (or walked off to look for them etc etc) who actually knows. The story about checking the children kept changing.

The two sad stories are nothing like each other.

I would imagine the first mum had a history of alcohol abuse and leaving her kids alone.

I agree.
Our DS has SEN and tells school all kinds of fantastic things (I stayed up till 2 o clock in the morning!) and also is hypersensitive and has real problems working out intention. So if you brush against him you've hit him, and if he stubs his toe you did it on purpose.
We are currently trying to get help both for his aggressive behaviour but also for our difficulties remaining calm - we are aware shouting doesn't help but it's so hard not to.
But we have thick walls and school believe us not him.
I can't help thinking we'd be in a different situation if we were not a naice middle class family.

@LonelyBut What is FII?

@Bryonyshcmyony

I agree the stories are not completely alike.

In the first story the children were safe and removed to care.
In the second story the child vanished and has never been found and is possibly dead.

But hey ho the GP's did nothing wrong. Just unlucky I imagine!

I had never thought about it in these terms but totally agree with the op.
Wealth can glaze over very irresponsible behaviour

...OP, all I can suggest is that you get away from an area like this. My area (which I loved) was fast becoming like this and I had to get away because it did my nut. Plus the kids are nicer round here. Entitled parents (I can do what I like without consequences) leads to entitled kids.

The wealthy middle classes I know (colleagues not friends), openly brag about their kids parties. The weed and the alcohol they allow them to have, it's fine though because it's in the summer house at the end of mummy and daddy's garden. The photos they show me of their daughters dressed in next to nothing on a night out as well and they are so proud of how beautiful they look (cough cough). They absolutely turn their noses up and look down on the the townie state school kids though.

Another point is the way often some will respond to professionals. In my job we have lots of families who come from a cycle of poverty. Many are suspicious or fearful of professionals. They can act defensively even when we are trying to help as it is a belief they have been brought up with. As TA I sometimes have a better relationship with a parent than the teacher or SLT. If a social worker came knocking on the door they likely wouldn't be pleasant, possibly wouldn't know the right things to say if they've come from a chaotic upbringing themselves and be hostile. A MC parent who deals with professionals all the time would easily be able to talk the talk, ' how ridiculous, whoever said that haha, excuse the mess hubby has been working away and I've had the flu. It's been an awful week'

I survived my middle class childhood of benign neglect.

I think the impact is largely cushioned by parental wealth and family relationships. I think some middle class children are being failed by SS.

It's not fair on the children.

I am going to go against the grain, and in my (horrendous) experience with SS, the fact that I am a middle class professional seemed to just spur them on...

Very very very long story short, lots of vile accusations from my abusive ex, of alcoholism, mental heath issues, oh and of being the perpetrator of the abuse (!!), and SS believed absolutely everything he decided to accuse me of, every single times, despite reams of evidence (from all other agencies, police, gp, etc). The sw said I was 'hiding behind my status' yet openly said she knew dd was at absolutely no risk from me, enjoyed visiting my house as she knew it was clean, tidy etc, blah blah blah.

They seemed determined to pin something on me, and when it all came out that I was telling the truth, then the grovelling apologies (after a lengthy stage 3 investigation where they were found to be at fault on 15 out of 17 of my complaints) and praising of my parenting and safeguarding my child came out. The fact that they put me and dd at 'serious risk of harm' (by their own admission) by continuing their witch hunt against me instead of investigating him is utterly horrifying.

But again, I do believe that they pursued it as I am 'not their usual demography' (sorry, that sounds terrible, couldn't think of a better way to phrase it, and also reinforces the original point of this post).

It also fills me with absolute fear that people who might not have the resources, or the knowledge of certain processes etc or who are (understandably) totally blindsided by ss may well in a similar situation have had their dc removed.

So right @rantymcrantface66. I am always surprised how much more confident I am in my job than people who have being doing it for years and are actually much better at me than the job, just a lower level of education than me, and brought in more poverty. It makes me sad, because I feel like they should be so much more confident.

I'm dying to know where this is OP! People would describe me as middle class but my life is so much duller. I don't even remember when I last had more than one glass of wine of an evening, and I haven't been out past midnight in years.

Honestly I don't think I know enough to judge, but I think your theory makes sense so there may be some truth in it.

I’m sure your right OP. I went to a 4th birthday the other day- boiling hot parents all drinking Prosecco/pimms. Kids all ended up naked running amok with us all tipsy and having a ball. It was lovely and in no way dangerous (loads of drivers, no one drunk) but if we were on a council estate and drinking cans of fosters I would have judged myself. Awful awful awful I know.

Completely agree with you OP. I've seen this - I think middle class people in general often 'get away' with more, I think it's partly because they expect to.