To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

@catfunk

Ok so for those saying I have a chip on my shoulder (I'm genuinely sure how but please feel free to explain) here is another example.

Person I went to school with has lost custody of her kids because of complaints from DC father of drug use and alcohol (which is true- not defending her btw)

My friend husband takes cocaine at least every other weekend, wether in a fancy restaurant, dinner party or drinks at friends house.... he must spend around £100 minimum a weekend on it, and drinks heavily on weekends.

Did the person you went to school with neglect to feed and clothe her kids, did she have anti social behaviour whilst under the influence of alcohol and drugs? Look at the tragic case of Peaches Geldof, she was a heroin addict, if she had been living in a council flat on benefits, and using her money to buy heroin and not looking after the kids im sure she would have social services involved But they hsd nannies, she wasent buying her drugs from dodgy dealers, her children would have been well cared for in spite of her addiction.

I always think back to Kate Moss. Single mum caught on camera using drugs with addict boyfriend. Out of the country while daughter 3 years old is looked after by someone else. Anyone else would have had some Social Services involvement / investigation. She went to private rehab/ spa in Arizona instead I believe.

So what I can take from this discussion is that ‘middle class children’ are slipping through the net as much or more than ‘working class children’ and not being supported when necessary.

It doesn’t make sense to care about the parents getting away with things, because it means that children are suffering.

@Poppitt58

I don’t think hungover parents have SS involvement regardless of income. The threshold for SS has always been higher than a hangover.

However, I do think you have a point. My example being, parents leaving toddlers asleep in the car whilst they do school pick up. Where I grew up, that would’ve been, at the least, addressed by the school and the parents told it’s not okay. Here, a few parents do this regularly, and the school doesn’t bat an eyelid.

So in addition to everything else that's foisted onto schools they are now expected to patrol the area checking for babies left there? I really don't understand why schools are expected to be responsible for so many non-educational matters.

I am finding this thread very validating. DH is UMC/UC I am LMC by background, for years I have struggled with what I percieve as borderline neglectful parenting by his toff mates and the UMC circles we now move in.

As others say it can all be outsourced (nursery/ nanny/ boarding school) and yes independance prized above all else.

There's a comedian who does a piece on:

Imagine if your boyfriend met you from work, threw you in the back of a van with a bag over your head, , refused to say where you're going and then kept you in a locked room all weekend and had sex with you...

Versus:

Imagine if your boyfriend met you from work, put you in a limo with a blindfold on, then kept you in the Ritz with sex and room service all weekend..

One would be kidnap and sexual assault - the other would be romantic surprise mini break.

So really - it's not about the act - its about the budget.

@Lovemusic33

I think class has always been a issue when it comes to things like this and I think there are a lot of kids being neglected and abused in middle class homes . It’s just assumed that people with money do not neglect their kids.

We live in a similar area, mainly middle classed rich families, I know many that drink and have parties (with drugs) whilst the kids are in the house, no one really bats an eye lid but if it happens in my road (council houses) the police are called and social services get involved.

Are people saying that no working class people regularly get drunk and take drugs?

Of course they do, and their kids aren't taken into care and social services aren't involved either.

If Social Services looked behind a few doors in a few well to do neighbourhoods, they would probably be shocked.

I very much doubt it, sad to say . I dont think anyone thinks neglect/abuse doesn't happen in m/c homes, just that it's less visible, for various reasons, some of which have been explored on this thread.

@Lovemusic33

I think class has always been a issue when it comes to things like this and I think there are a lot of kids being neglected and abused in middle class homes . It’s just assumed that people with money do not neglect their kids.

We live in a similar area, mainly middle classed rich families, I know many that drink and have parties (with drugs) whilst the kids are in the house, no one really bats an eye lid but if it happens in my road (council houses) the police are called and social services get involved.

Many, many years ago when we worked in Military schools there was a call made by a barman to the RMPs, military police, complaining that there were personnel in the bar, broken glass all over the floor and some blood. The RMPs said they would be there pdq, where are you? The Officers' Club. They never appeared, surprisingly enough.

yanbu

The Prosecco/Gin vs lager scenario is spot on.

As is wealthier MC families able to fund cleaner, restaurants etc to mitigate impact.

I forgot about Cameron. See also Cummings apparently driving to see family because he and his wife were incapable of caring for one child when ill.

@catfunk

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

Really you have no idea of the impact on those children, wether they are effected or not. It doesn’t make it less that children being for example neglected in some areas may be better fed. Being a responsible parent is more than feeding your child. You are right though that the more loaded parents seem to get away with it more and fly under the radar. I felt this when the McCanns neglected their young children and the little girl went missing. They should have been prosecuted for leaving those children unsupervised in an unlocked apartment.

I had a very mc friend, father a church warden. Her dm physically abused her, broke her arm, pushed her downstairs etc.
She told her headmaster who contacted her parents. They denied everything, the headmaster said how disappointed he was that she could lie about her parents, pillars of the community.
And of course friend got worse abuse as a result.
I met her dm once and i just stared at her thinking you absolute f***g cowbag.

@colouringindoors

yanbu

The Prosecco/Gin vs lager scenario is spot on.

As is wealthier MC families able to fund cleaner, restaurants etc to mitigate impact.

As a single parent on benefits I was actually criticised for having a cleaner !! Part of the assessment focused intensely on the fact it was assumed I shouldn’t have one and me having one (once a week for 4 hours) meant i ‘wasnt coping’ that I should have been able to do my own cleaning

So you just can’t win !

I definitely think that middle class probably get away with more.

There was a post up thread about its the judge who makes the decision if a child needs to go into the care system. Yes he says if its going to happen . But its based on what has been said by a social worker. Professions are often automatically believed over a parent/s who may not be very well educated and find it hard to fight their corner parents also get gagging orders

When involved with social services you have to jump through lots of hoops you get less choice for example if you choose for your child not to have child hood immunisations this would be out down in the report and held against you. They make you do pointless thing like changing doctor when your only staying on that area for a month but if you don't your on trouble for that even though you still has access to a doctor. Now this person has to change doctor all over again.

I know a girl who's in the care system. Got picked up by some bloke and was gang rapped . She was then dropped back to the care home. Meaning the dirty shit knew where she was staying and social services left her there .

Also with dv situations the woman has had the courage to leave report to the police social services then become involved and her life is made hell by them. From what I have read another dv situations I can understand why woman are to scared to report her abuser or seek help.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Mm was abducted The blame lies with the person who abducted her

If she’d been looked after properly no one would’ve been able to abduct her.

Fwiw this is a known fact and it's brought up time and time again in child protection training however knowing doesn't seem to change anything

LonelyBut I'm a more than good enough but lower income parent from a grim background. I've also worked for the well to do and seen all sorts in a lifetime and know how things get interpreted according to those doing the looking and judging. Impacts are considered reduced by money and respectability with a disregard to the child's lived experience partly because it all gets too close for comfort to the lifestyles of those decision making.

Don't think yourself mad, it is indeed a thing and I think much harder for better off/ and/ or MC survivors off it to rationalize out.

@rantymcrantface66

Fwiw this is a known fact and it's brought up time and time again in child protection training however knowing doesn't seem to change anything

So certain parents (WC, on benefits, council housing etc) really are judged by a stricter set of standards 😞

We are taught (in CP training) that predators look for DC who appear vunerable and or unsupervised. The Mac Canns ate at that resturant every night. It wouldn't have been difficult to spot that pattern.

I think don't underestimate the advantage a middle class accent and an ability to explain yourself in an articulate way.

Are people saying that no working class people regularly get drunk and take drugs?

Of course they do, and their kids aren't taken into care and social services aren't involved either.

But I dont think it's just about SS involvement. I think that working class parents are judged by society much more harshly than parents for whom money very obviously isn't a problem. As has been mentioned by pp, if a child from a comfortably off family has tangled hair, muddy jeans and a Boden jumper with holes in the elbows, it's bohemian. If a poor child has tangled hair, muddy trousers and a jumper with holes in, the child isnt being looked after properly. SS wouldnt be involved in either case, but I do think there would be a tendency to regard the parents differently.

@Bryonyshcmyony they try. But as previous posters have pointed out, these people are often professionals, intelligent, articulate etc and police/judges/juries often aren’t able to see past this or their “status” (if it ever gets that far).

And also as previously mentioned, it’s often under reported by people who know the families, including school teachers who know the children, so it’s hard for social workers to investigate in these circumstances. Often the children are well fed and clothed but are neglected to the extreme and deal with alcoholic/drug abusing parents but no one sees it because the neglect isn’t “typical” because of money.

but she'd never dare let her child run round with unbrushed hair in wellies and mud covered 2nd hand boden clothes like the stereotypical MN child, she'd worry someone would report her for being anything less than perfect now.

And this one of the things that so many wealthy/MC people don’t get when they express their confusion over how the less well off/WC spend their money (so often seen on MN). You don’t even have to have experienced the involvement of the authorities but historically the less well off have been judged harshly for visible signs of poverty.

Spending on new clothing and shoes for dc rather than charity shop or hand me downs is one of the ways many WC demonstrate that they are able to provide for their dc. There is an awareness that their child going to school looking like a tramp is likely to be noticed by the teacher, interpreted as a negative thing and filed away as something to keep an eye on. Then the next minor thing is something else for the school to note… Historically WC have been more at risk of coming to the attention of the authorities for things that are nothing more than approved MC signifiers in another area.

LonelyBut

WTF??!!